Aug 22, 2020, 1:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines prohibits the practice known as “hidden city ticketing” (sometimes referred to as “skiplagging”, “throwaway ticketing” or “point beyond ticketing” as well).
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
- Buying a ticket without intending to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combining 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Booking a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Holding reservations for reasons like securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
- Booking duplicate or impossible trips, for example multiple trips for the same passenger around the same time (trips a passenger physically could not complete)
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently
- Require you refund to us any compensation we provided like bag delivery costs, and reimbursement for clothes or toiletries because of late or lost bags
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
Hidden city ticketing is a way to find cheaper nonstop tickets by booking a connecting flight to a final destination beyond yours, but ending your journey at a layover point. You might find that a flight from New York to Nashville with a layover in Atlanta is cheaper than a nonstop ticket from New York to Atlanta, so you book the itinerary with the connection. But, when the plane stops in Atlanta, you end your journey there and are a no-show for the onward flight to Nashville. — scottscheapflights.com
Hidden City Audit - AA Demanding Payment or Account Termination
Aug 21, 2020, 12:22 pm
#166
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DAY
Programs: Rapid Rewards, Skymiles, Hilton HHonors, SPG/Marriott Rewards
Posts: 4,948
I don't either, but I also don't consider "but he was doing 100" a defense if I get pulled over for doing 65. A rule is a rule, and if I break it, I break it. Of course you are more likely to get caught the more flagrantly/often you break it.
Aug 21, 2020, 12:27 pm
#167
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
Though, I feel like OP is more like someone going 15 over the speed limit than 50. If OP is a high revenue customer, and did a few hidden city tickets a year over the course of many years, and AA essentially gave him a slap on the wrist to pocket some extra cash, it strikes me that AA doesn't really see this as 50 over the speed limit.
Aug 21, 2020, 12:34 pm
#168
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
$2,500 seems like quite a bargain. My guess is that we're looking at probably $15,000 in lost revenue - 50 tickets at a potential of $300 per ticket differential.
Aug 21, 2020, 12:36 pm
#169
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Here are some of the current conditions of carriage for AA:
Examples include (but are not limited to):
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
- Buying a ticket without intending to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combining 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Booking a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Holding reservations for reasons like securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
- Booking duplicate or impossible trips, for example multiple trips for the same passenger around the same time (trips a passenger physically could not complete)
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently
- Require you refund to us any compensation we provided like bag delivery costs, and reimbursement for clothes or toiletries because of late or lost bags
Aug 21, 2020, 12:43 pm
#170
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
Aug 21, 2020, 12:46 pm
#171
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Anyone that is an EXP should know what about the prohibit booking practices. Now if he/she wants to take part in them, particularly to the level of 52 times presumably over a certain period of time (I'm assuming this wasn't 52 times over 20 years) then they take the high risk. There's no argument here. The OP either pays up and moves on and/or finds an airline that doesn't have restrictions on Hidden Cities.
Aug 21, 2020, 1:57 pm
#172
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,440
I suspect that the OP's itinerary was the same 52 times and that he missed the exact same flight at the exact same time over and over again. (And he thought that as an elite AA wouldn't notice or care)
You would have to wonder what a gate agent manning the flight would think when Mr A kept missing the same flight to the same city.
After a while they might just say to their supervisor "Did you notice that Mr. A missed our flight # 1234 again for the fourth time this month??"
Aug 21, 2020, 2:30 pm
#174
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Well, I meant, why don't they bill you as soon as they detected you've skiplagged.
I still feel you gotta wonder about consumer protection laws if AA can do this.
McDonald's had to pay someone close to a million dollar for a coffee that was deemed too hot. To me, it seems common sense should dictate that a coffee is quite hot. Any reasonable person should know that without a label "this beverage is extremely hot".
To the contrary, AA's contracts of carriage are extremely complicated legal documents. You cannot expect the average person to fully understand them. It is honestly surprising to me when AA asks for more money if you use less of the service.
What if they had a clause "if you no-show, you won't get your money back and there will also be a penalty fee of $1k?" So no-showing and not flying would cost the consumer more than flying. Sounds extreme? Well, it would boil down to the same thing as charging somebody extra for skiplegging!
I still feel you gotta wonder about consumer protection laws if AA can do this.
McDonald's had to pay someone close to a million dollar for a coffee that was deemed too hot. To me, it seems common sense should dictate that a coffee is quite hot. Any reasonable person should know that without a label "this beverage is extremely hot".
To the contrary, AA's contracts of carriage are extremely complicated legal documents. You cannot expect the average person to fully understand them. It is honestly surprising to me when AA asks for more money if you use less of the service.
What if they had a clause "if you no-show, you won't get your money back and there will also be a penalty fee of $1k?" So no-showing and not flying would cost the consumer more than flying. Sounds extreme? Well, it would boil down to the same thing as charging somebody extra for skiplegging!
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
Aug 21, 2020, 2:48 pm
#175
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Here is the provision relating to HCT. Doesn't strike me, as you say, as a particularly complex legal argument. In fact, it's in plain English and it is "prohibited".
Examples include (but are not limited to):
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using a prohibited practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently
Aug 21, 2020, 2:52 pm
#176
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956
Are you 100% sure this email is legit and not a targeted phish impersonating AA? Someone pointed out an error on the due date. Doubt AA would let something like that slip by.
If 100% a legit claim, I would negotiate. Everything is negotiable in life, including taxes and death.
If 100% a legit claim, I would negotiate. Everything is negotiable in life, including taxes and death.
If the OP had posted here, denied the offense, and 150 posts later grudgingly admitted to it and yet claimed they did absolutely nothing wrong, I would also say it was legit.
Aug 21, 2020, 2:54 pm
#177
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Given that the AA security department is pretty thorough, I'll note the error in the date - "You may respond to this message by 3pm,CST, Friday, August 31, 2020"
I'm starting to wonder if the number of tickets or the amount of the "penalty" or the date on which a response is demanded as been changed in an effort to retain some semblance of anonymity. In other words, the true amount may be $7,500 but the OP doesn't want to reveal his identity by identifying specific facts that are relevant to his situation. Especially given that he has admitted to HC ticketing and he's effectively blown any legal recourse in that admission.
I'm starting to wonder if the number of tickets or the amount of the "penalty" or the date on which a response is demanded as been changed in an effort to retain some semblance of anonymity. In other words, the true amount may be $7,500 but the OP doesn't want to reveal his identity by identifying specific facts that are relevant to his situation. Especially given that he has admitted to HC ticketing and he's effectively blown any legal recourse in that admission.
Aug 21, 2020, 2:56 pm
#178
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 4éme
Posts: 12,042
Aug 21, 2020, 2:58 pm
#179
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Most perpetrators get caught because they commit the same offense in the exact same manner over and over again.
I suspect that the OP's itinerary was the same 52 times and that he missed the exact same flight at the exact same time over and over again. (And he thought that as an elite AA wouldn't notice or care)
You would have to wonder what a gate agent manning the flight would think when Mr A kept missing the same flight to the same city. After a while they might just say to their supervisor
"Did you notice that Mr. A missed our flight # 1234 again for the fourth time this month??"
I suspect that the OP's itinerary was the same 52 times and that he missed the exact same flight at the exact same time over and over again. (And he thought that as an elite AA wouldn't notice or care)
You would have to wonder what a gate agent manning the flight would think when Mr A kept missing the same flight to the same city.
After a while they might just say to their supervisor"Did you notice that Mr. A missed our flight # 1234 again for the fourth time this month??"
Aug 21, 2020, 3:02 pm
#180
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
apples and oranges. WN is a mesh network not hub and spoke. Hidden city ticketing is typically passenger abandoning trip at the hub but ticketed beyond because of fare difference. I don’t think banning prohibition of hidden city will lead to innovation; just increase in fares.
You need more competition to encourage innovation.
Why not? OP abandoned part of the itinerary 50 times. CoC spelled out this is not allowed so it’s not like AA bait and switched. Let’s say new legislation results. End result is airlines will compensate by adjusting fares upward/cutting service to unprofitable cities.