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Old Apr 6, 2019, 11:28 am
  #196  
 
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Originally Posted by nk15

competition is driving the prices down and it’s healthy, but not dynamic pricing
Are you more comfortable with the term "Supply and Demand"?
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 4:23 pm
  #197  
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Here is an intro article for all of us to read on dynamic pricing, and it’s more sinister cousin, personalized pricing.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...alised-pricing
I personally find it unethical that if you need to fly last minute or close to the flight the airlines can demand extortionate 4x fares (which seems to be a combo of dynamic but mostly personalized pricing). In that regard, any “lost profit” claims for the airlines based on these dynamic/personalized pricing schemes is a more ethically dubious proposition.

Personalized pricing may actually be a form of discrimination, and should be looked at legislatively. Take for example pharmaceuticals charging US consumers multiple times the price of meds than other countries.
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 6:13 pm
  #198  
 
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Originally Posted by nk15
Here is an intro article for all of us to read on dynamic pricing, and it’s more sinister cousin, personalized pricing.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...alised-pricing
I personally find it unethical that if you need to fly last minute or close to the flight the airlines can demand extortionate 4x fares (which seems to be a combo of dynamic but mostly personalized pricing). In that regard, any “lost profit” claims for the airlines based on these dynamic/personalized pricing schemes is a more ethically dubious proposition.

Personalized pricing may actually be a form of discrimination, and should be looked at legislatively. Take for example pharmaceuticals charging US consumers multiple times the price of meds than other countries.
There is as much supply and demand factor in play here as there is dynamic pricing. You can fly this coming tuesday from Miami to Houston for $120 one way. The day before is $500 one way - largely because the flights are much more full.
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 8:03 pm
  #199  
 
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Originally Posted by nk15
Personalized pricing may actually be a form of discrimination, and should be looked at legislatively. Take for example pharmaceuticals charging US consumers multiple times the price of meds than other countries.

Personalized pricing is a form of discrimination, it is perfectly legal, and it creates economic value. Happy hours, early bird specials, late night specials, pay in advance discounts, etc, are all discriminatory practices. Not to mention seniors discounts, student discounts, teachers' discounts....

Certain customers can meet the T&Cs and get a better price. In many jurisdicitons, where such discrimination has taken place involving a protected class, it has been declared illegal (different pricing for men's and women's haircuts=NOT OK; charging extra for longer hair=OK).

Without discriminatory pricing, restaurants would have trouble filling tables at off-peak times and would have a harder time making rent, paying full-time staff, etc. Many, many other examples exist. I'm not an expert on prescription drug pricing, but it seems that deregulating importation restrictions might be one way to address the problem.

We had a system of "fair" pricing of airline travel in this country until about 40 years ago. Most would agree that the current approach has been a resounding success in terms of creating economic value, as measured in industry employment levels, business for airlines' suppliers and vendors, and of course benefit to the traveling public (growth in both business activity and expanded leisure opportunities). Ironically, airline investors have been the primary class that has not benefited from deregulation (until recently).

I will concede that technology has enabled airlines to price their product more with more precision over time, but the basic concept is no different than a happy hour from 5-7. Have to work until 7:30? Tough luck--you'll have to spend that overtime check on the regular menu...
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 8:48 pm
  #200  
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Originally Posted by IADCAflyer
There is as much supply and demand factor in play here as there is dynamic pricing. You can fly this coming tuesday from Miami to Houston for $120 one way. The day before is $500 one way - largely because the flights are much more full.
Right, and if they kept selling the seats for $120 they’d be sold out and the businessperson who needed to get to Houston the next day would not find any availability.
Could they just sell all seats for a flat $300? Sure, I guess. That’s what they did before 1978.
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 9:31 pm
  #201  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon

Right, and if they kept selling the seats for $120 they’d be sold out and the businessperson who needed to get to Houston the next day would not find any availability.
Could they just sell all seats for a flat $300? Sure, I guess. That’s what they did before 1978.
I remember when COACH round-trip from LA to BOS was $2,000, and that was about 20 years ago, so it was probably equivalent to $3,000 now.
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 9:56 pm
  #202  
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I would agree that certain aspects of dynamic/ personalized pricing are ok and beneficial, such as student and infant discounts, for example, but there are also great risks for abuses...Who and how the decide how much to charge, where are the limits, should they use your personal data to track and discriminate against you (sounds very inappropriate) etc. I don’t know what the answer is, but there is definitely some uneasiness and sense of unfairness about the whole thing...
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 11:08 pm
  #203  
 
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It is not the consumers responsibility to protect a corporations “loop holes” or mistakes. This is nothing more than a Flight to HKG in Biz for $23, or the ritz carlton in NYC 12/31 for $40. We, the consumer are not responsible for vendor mistakes.

Depending on the state you live in, I would look at consumer protections. If it is not a hub state, then possibly a very public law suit.

Last edited by wrdouglas; Apr 6, 2019 at 11:09 pm Reason: Because.
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Old Apr 6, 2019, 11:23 pm
  #204  
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Originally Posted by wrdouglas
It is not the consumers responsibility to protect a corporations “loop holes” or mistakes. This is nothing more than a Flight to HKG in Biz for $23, or the ritz carlton in NYC 12/31 for $40. We, the consumer are not responsible for vendor mistakes.

Depending on the state you live in, I would look at consumer protections. If it is not a hub state, then possibly a very public law suit.
The vendor doesn't have to continue to do business with a customer that it dosn't want to

At this time AA is doing , it seems, nothing other than stating that it doesn't want the person as a member of its FF scheme

With mistake fares, the airlines are not obligated to honour them and there are plenty where the airline just cancels the booking

There is a difference with a vendor making a mistake and offering a credit card for payment which you know is invalid
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 12:39 am
  #205  
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Originally Posted by sbrower
I remember when COACH round-trip from LA to BOS was $2,000, and that was about 20 years ago, so it was probably equivalent to $3,000 now.
In 1999, my BOS-LA roundtrip flights in economy class cost way less than $2000. And around then, my business class BOS/NYC-LON roundtrip flights in business class cost less than $1700. The sub-$1700 to London and back being a negotiated rate, while the way less than $2000 cost for BOS-LA roundtrip was not.

Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 7, 2019 at 12:47 am
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 1:15 am
  #206  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


In 1999, my BOS-LA roundtrip flights in economy class cost way less than $2000. And around then, my business class BOS/NYC-LON roundtrip flights in business class cost less than $1700. The sub-$1700 to London and back being a negotiated rate, while the way less than $2000 cost for BOS-LA roundtrip was not.
Well, to get a better timeframe, it was about 1 year before Lotus v. Borland went to the Supreme Court. So checking Google I find that the correct time frame is . . . 1995. (This was the time when you saved money with: a) a Saturday night stay, or b) an overnight flight where you paid Yn instead of Y. For one of my many trips I found a real good trick - you could fly to Bermuda from LA (international, so free stopover in gateway city of NY) for a total of about $780. The RT shuttle from NY to BOS was only a couple of hundred, so instead of $2,000 just to go to Boston, I got a day in Bermuda and save the client $1,200 in airfare.
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 1:22 am
  #207  
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Originally Posted by AngryATaa
So i have been platinum pro or platinum last three years. I travel American exclusively because of their direct routes. I am constantly booking travel. I had an American airline credit card which was in my profile but long ago canceled. Because of my plans I would constantly look at tickets and reserve but the card on file would not go through so if I decided to book I knew I could call and switch card if not the reservation would cancel. Well apparently two weeks ago my account was locked. The communication was BEYOND TERRBILE. I could not book using my account and every time I called I was given the run around. I emailed once a day with no reply. Today I get an email claiming I owe the 68k but they will settle for 21k. Otherwise I was no longer allowed to be a memeber. The person that emailed me was afraid to even use their full name. Gave no phone number and refused to call me. Yet they claim I owe for tickets that I never even traveled with. Do I have any recourse????
Doesn't sounds fishy or trying to game the system at all to me. Perhaps AA thought the same and decided that as you are "constantly booking travel" they'd had enough.

That said, the calls all sound rather dodgy and not AA-like to me.
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 2:40 am
  #208  
 
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Originally Posted by sbrower
I remember when COACH round-trip from LA to BOS was $2,000, and that was about 20 years ago, so it was probably equivalent to $3,000 now.
I think you need to go back more than 20 years to find sky high transcon fares. 20 years ago was 1999, and fares, while less dynamic than today were never that high. Back then, BOS fares were affected by the Southwest effect where nearby service to PVD and MHT caused fare reductions to BOS owing to proximity.

Courtesy of WN, you could definitely fly LAX-PVD or LAX-MHT for $199 round trip. BOS fares were about $100 more (used to be $200 or $300 more).
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 3:01 am
  #209  
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We're getting way off topic here, but several people have recently asked about changing from undesirable to desirable flights in the China forum recently. The deal is that MU keeps the 6p PEK-SHA flight at full fare, regardless of demand, and heavily discounts the 9p and 930p flights. If you finish work early, changing from the 9p to the 6p is easy, but you need to pay up to full fare.
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Old Apr 7, 2019, 9:43 am
  #210  
 
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Originally Posted by Silver Fox
Doesn't sounds fishy or trying to game the system at all to me. Perhaps AA thought the same and decided that as you are "constantly booking travel" they'd had enough.

That said, the calls all sound rather dodgy and not AA-like to me.
I just want to applaud your effort to stick to the topic at hand in the midst of what is quickly becoming omni soup.
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