Strange denial of boarding on MAN-PHL

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Old Mar 29, 19, 9:47 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
Surely that would also then trigger EC 261 compensation then too, right..
That part I'm still waiting for an answer on.
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Old Mar 29, 19, 9:49 am
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Originally Posted by dflanagin View Post
So normally EC261/2004 protects passengers from being bumped, delayed or cancelled on. I am actually pretty familiar with the law and its workings. Now here’s a strange scenario that has been brought to my attention and I’m curious of other folks thoughts:

Friend of mine is on a flight MAN-PHL, it’s an American Airlines flight. This is the return flight on the itinerary, friend lives in SLC. Friend checks in 7:30, prints boarding pass that says:

boarding starts at 9:15

departure at 10:05

and at the very top of his boarding pass it says “doors close 10 minutes prior to departure.”

Friend rolls up to the gate at 9:31 and they tell him they closed the gate because they made the last call for him and he wasn’t in the boarding area at 9:15. Plane departs 9:43 without him, 22 minutes early.

Airline says he was there at 9:35 and they close the door 30 mins prior to departure. Boarding pass says they close the door 10 minutes before departure. Friend says doesn’t matter he was there at 9:31.

I found some folks with similar situations here but still not sure what the outcomes were. Seems to me like they violated the agreement printed on the ticket, regardless of their “30 minute policy”
I re-read this after seeing the above post with data showing that the flight left the gate 22 minutes early. If AA says he arrived at the gate at 9:35, that is exactly T-30, so he arrived "by T-30" although not "before T-30" and obviously would not have been "on board by T-30." Nevertheless, it sounds like when he arrived at T-30, he had already been offloaded, Since that takes a minute or two to do, the GA would therefore have begun the process of offloading him before T-30, so he should not even have already lost his seat at that time. Common sense suggests that to leave the gate 22 minutes early would mean that the door was closed at least 23-35 minutes early as the aircraft cannot move as the door is being closed, plus some things need to be checked after the door is closed before the flight can move. I'm starting to believe that even if (in contradiction to various printed statements on the boarding pass, in the CoC, and on the AA website) AA wants not claim that the real rule AA wants to follow is T-30, the OP's friend just barely satisfied the T-30 cutoff.

I hope the OP's friend fights this, escalating if necessary, and that the OP reports back (or convinces the friend to join FT and tell us himself what happened/happens).
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Old Mar 29, 19, 9:57 am
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Pushed from gate at 9:43, flight was "closed" 8 minutes later, so, overall, I'd *hope* the OP's friend won't encounter all that much resistance getting their money back.
I'm hoping to be able to share some more details with the OP via PM shortly that may be of some help.
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Old Mar 29, 19, 9:58 am
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It would be interesting to know if the passenger had checked luggage. I would assume that it would have been loaded and would then have had to be unloaded if the passenger was denied boarding. This would given AA some reason not to unload a passenger who was known to be at the airport. Not that it doesn't happen, it seems to be quite common at LHR T5.
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Old Mar 29, 19, 10:12 am
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Why does OP have so many FT accounts?
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Old Mar 29, 19, 10:28 am
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It is against FlyerTalk rules to have more than a single account. This thread was closed until the accounts started by the OP were sorted.

Thank you for your patience.

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Last edited by JDiver; Mar 29, 19 at 11:18 pm
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Old Mar 29, 19, 1:43 pm
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Originally Posted by MADPhil View Post
It would be interesting to know if the passenger had checked luggage. I would assume that it would have been loaded and would then have had to be unloaded if the passenger was denied boarding. This would given AA some reason not to unload a passenger who was known to be at the airport. Not that it doesn't happen, it seems to be quite common at LHR T5.
No luggage, this was our thought too!
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Old Mar 29, 19, 1:49 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Betterthanyou View Post
INAL, but a BP is not a contract and not a guarantee. The contract is the COC you agree to when you purchase the ticket, so arguing about what the BP says may not hold as strongly as one may think.
Both the CoC and the boarding pass state 10 minutes though from the information posted in this thread
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Old Mar 29, 19, 2:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
The BP does not say T-10 for presentation. It states that doors close at T-10.

Whether the passenger was late is a factual question. Because OP was not the passenger, that won't be resolveable here. OP says his friend says T-34, which would have been timely. According to OP, AA says T-29. Whether AA said that to the friend or to OP is unclear.
As someone noted, it doesn't matter when doors closed, as it seems he was there

AA's own rules state "Rule 0087 - Denied Boarding - Article C(2)(D): ALL OTHER PASSENGERS ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED BASIS. HOWEVER, IN ACCORDANCE WITH RULE 60(F) (RESERVATIONS), ALL PASSENGERS MUST PRESENT THEMSELVES AT THE LOADING GATE, FOR BOARDING AT LEAST TEN MINUTES BEFORE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE"
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Old Mar 29, 19, 2:56 pm
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Even with the proof stacked against them, we are at 3 denials from AA for compensation.

The emails are a confusing blend of "check-in", "boarding check", "ticket gate", "ticket counter" (yes they have used all of these phrases). This statement is a good example:

Despite the circumstances, our agents do not have the ability to override the check-in systems. Therefore, since Mr. M* didn't arrive at the gate prior to the cut-off time, we must respectfully decline your request for compensation and adjustments.
Their check-in systems have a time limit, THEREFORE since Mr. M didnt arrive at the gate in time...? No, that is not a THEREFORE statement.
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Old Mar 29, 19, 3:29 pm
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I would simply get them to put a clear email stating the time they got to the gate and simply put a claim in clearly stating that the compensation is required under EC261

Also state time that they arrived at the gate; highlight the 10 minutes as per CoC and include a copy of boarding pass to show that they were checked in

If it still invents garbage, then time to simply take to a small claims court

I cant remember if AA has a specific email address for EC261 claims
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Old Mar 29, 19, 4:10 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
The gate deadline for international is T-30. Doors close at T-10. But, that has nothing to do with whether your friend was at the gate at the required time. If he blew that deadline, he is SOL and properly offloaded. No EC 261/2004 (EUR 600) or DOT (400% of segment fare to a maximum of $1,350) compensationThat leaves the question of whether your friend was at the gate by T-30. He apparently has told you 09:31 and AA says it was after 9:35. That is a factual dispute.

AA's system will have logged, to the second, when your friend was off-loaded. So, that is going to be hard to beat.

Once the gate deadline has passed, any standbys processed, the flight will be closed and depart because there is no particular reason to wait around. Thus, unimportant that the push was early.
by my math, 9:35 is T-30 ??
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Old Mar 29, 19, 5:22 pm
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Originally Posted by Gadot View Post
by my math, 9:35 is T-30 ??
Indeed - whether 9:31 or 9:35 they were there 30 minutes before departure which is well over the 10 minutes required as per CoC . It seems that AA is just trying to make stuff up in hope that person will go away and avoid reimbursing the extra costs plus the compensation due
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Old Mar 29, 19, 6:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Indeed - whether 9:31 or 9:35 they were there 30 minutes before departure which is well over the 10 minutes required as per CoC . It seems that AA is just trying to make stuff up in hope that person will go away and avoid reimbursing the extra costs plus the compensation due
We definitely will not stop, I strongly believe we are right, and that AA has to make some
serious adjustments to their CoC. I kind of hope we go all the way to court, maybe it will end this kind of nonsense.

Im still trying to get my friend in here, but for now here
a text he sent me:

they didn't say anything about it being full. they just said it's too late you need to go past border patrol and that i should've been there earlier. the main lady was a angry about it like she was mad at me. and then the calm dude came over and walked me out. there was no real convo. i was walking downstairs [to passport control] with the dude sometime around 9:40
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Old Mar 29, 19, 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by dflanagin View Post


We definitely will not stop, I strongly believe we are right, and that AA has to make some
serious adjustments to their CoC. I kind of hope we go all the way to court, maybe it will end this kind of nonsense.

Im still trying to get my friend in here, but for now here
a text he sent me:


I am a bit confused by the text message content. It says that the agent stated "you need to go past border patrol " - was this interaction at the gate or at check in? If at the gate, they must have passed through border control - or were they saying that the passengers needed to return to passport control to leave?

Going to court won't end the nonsense - it may get your issue resolved, but wouldn't rely on it having any impact on what AA does in the future
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