Got downgraded from Business to Economy AA flight
Jan 10, 2019, 12:03 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Got downgraded from Business to Economy AA flight
how well did I do or could i have pushed for more?
Paid full fare business class ticket Honolulu to LAX one way
at airport counter, they told me equipment failure and that the plane no longer had enough business class seats. Anyways, knew the tail number and model of the plan we were supposed to be flying on, and I said when i get there will it be a different model plane and different tail number when i get to the gate, and there was an akward silence.
so i went into negotian mode for 5 mins. Anyways on a $2000 fare which is what i paid, i got
exit row seats on the same flight in economy
$1100 back on credit card
$2100 in AA vouchers
could I have done better?
Paid full fare business class ticket Honolulu to LAX one way
at airport counter, they told me equipment failure and that the plane no longer had enough business class seats. Anyways, knew the tail number and model of the plan we were supposed to be flying on, and I said when i get there will it be a different model plane and different tail number when i get to the gate, and there was an akward silence.
so i went into negotian mode for 5 mins. Anyways on a $2000 fare which is what i paid, i got
exit row seats on the same flight in economy
$1100 back on credit card
$2100 in AA vouchers
could I have done better?
Jan 10, 2019, 12:08 am
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Live: IWI; Work: DCA/Everywhere; Play: LAS/SJU/MLE
Programs: AA EXP, DL PM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Ambassador/LTP, Nat'l Exec Elite, LEYE Gold
Posts: 6,670
how well did I do or could i have pushed for more?
Paid full fare business class ticket Honolulu to LAX one way
at airport counter, they told me equipment failure and that the plane no longer had enough business class seats. Anyways, knew the tail number and model of the plan we were supposed to be flying on, and I said when i get there will it be a different model plane and different tail number when i get to the gate, and there was an akward silence.
so i went into negotian mode for 5 mins. Anyways on a $2000 fare which is what i paid, i got
exit row seats on the same flight in economy
$1100 back on credit card
$2100 in AA vouchers
could I have done better?
Paid full fare business class ticket Honolulu to LAX one way
at airport counter, they told me equipment failure and that the plane no longer had enough business class seats. Anyways, knew the tail number and model of the plan we were supposed to be flying on, and I said when i get there will it be a different model plane and different tail number when i get to the gate, and there was an akward silence.
so i went into negotian mode for 5 mins. Anyways on a $2000 fare which is what i paid, i got
exit row seats on the same flight in economy
$1100 back on credit card
$2100 in AA vouchers
could I have done better?
Jan 10, 2019, 12:20 am
#4
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
That seems reasonable IMO, you received a refund that was nearly half of what you paid plus a voucher for what you paid+100. When did you book this, the only variable I could see for asking for additional refund would be if at that time the coach fare was cheaper than $900 but if you can make use of the voucher I think what you got was fair.
Jan 10, 2019, 1:01 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
i should have clarified, this was for 3 tickets. all 3 of us got downgraded. so $2000 for 3 tickets / 3 seats. I know at time of purchase the 3 economy seats were $1600
only reason im even asking is i did not think it was possible to get downgraded out of business class, so not sure how hard i could have negotiated.
only reason im even asking is i did not think it was possible to get downgraded out of business class, so not sure how hard i could have negotiated.
Jan 10, 2019, 1:16 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Live: IWI; Work: DCA/Everywhere; Play: LAS/SJU/MLE
Programs: AA EXP, DL PM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Ambassador/LTP, Nat'l Exec Elite, LEYE Gold
Posts: 6,670
one thing you should be aware of is that you didn't have "full fare" business class tickets. The cheapest full fare economy ticket HNL-LAX is $1307 + taxes, and the cheapest full fare business class ticket is $1413 + taxes. There is a J fare that is right around $2000, so at first your post was credible, which is why it didn't raise a flag then.
Jan 10, 2019, 1:23 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
yeah obviously i understand if there is a plane change for whatever reason and there literally are less business class seats on flight.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
Jan 10, 2019, 1:26 am
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
yeah obviously i understand if there is a plane change for whatever reason and there literally are less business class seats on flight.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
People cancel bookings, they change flights, they may just not show up. There is nothing unethical about overbooking - the airline aims not to end up oversold when the flight departs
When you chanrge your clients - do they cancel 10 minutes before you are due to do work for them and expect not to pay?
Jan 10, 2019, 1:51 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
if you are buying full fare refundable tickets, that cost is factored in (And extra profit for airlines).
most of us however, buy tickets where if you are a no show, you lose the whole ticket value with no recourse, and those tickets often have no changes allowed or very expensive change fees to boot.
so i do not think this is an apples to apples comparison you are making. you make it sound like all the passengers could just not show for a flight and the airline would lose 100% of its revenue for that flight, which is not even close to what would really happen.
and yes, clients do someimes cancel the morning of or the day of, then i have to shuffle around the rest of the day, or i just go watch a movie or hang out at the beach if I am really tired on that day and don't feel like working.
most of us however, buy tickets where if you are a no show, you lose the whole ticket value with no recourse, and those tickets often have no changes allowed or very expensive change fees to boot.
so i do not think this is an apples to apples comparison you are making. you make it sound like all the passengers could just not show for a flight and the airline would lose 100% of its revenue for that flight, which is not even close to what would really happen.
and yes, clients do someimes cancel the morning of or the day of, then i have to shuffle around the rest of the day, or i just go watch a movie or hang out at the beach if I am really tired on that day and don't feel like working.
Jan 10, 2019, 3:23 am
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
You are more generous to your clients than I am - If a cancellation occurred like that, I would still be chargings
There are people who change flights and cancel flights ; the airline does keep track of percentage of people that will end up not on a flight and sell tickets accordingly
There are times when this messes up and the flight ends up oversold - there is no real difference ( other than the mathematical differences on percentages ) between economy, business and 1st for this
When the airline does mess up ( or unforseen situations occur ) - it will resort to upgrades/downgrades/rebooking
an equipment failure could have been that one of the seats was faulty rather than the whole aeroplane had to be replaced
There are people who change flights and cancel flights ; the airline does keep track of percentage of people that will end up not on a flight and sell tickets accordingly
There are times when this messes up and the flight ends up oversold - there is no real difference ( other than the mathematical differences on percentages ) between economy, business and 1st for this
When the airline does mess up ( or unforseen situations occur ) - it will resort to upgrades/downgrades/rebooking
an equipment failure could have been that one of the seats was faulty rather than the whole aeroplane had to be replaced
Jan 10, 2019, 5:57 am
#11
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Analogies never work. Best not to go down that path.
Air carriers overbook because that forms part of the fare structure. While AA does not sell "guaranteed" seats which cost more than those subject to oversale (or downgrade), it comes close.
Now that OP has explained that the refund and compensation were for three people, it seems fairly standard. The refund is a simple arithmetic calculation (which is likely unfair, but is AA's standard policy and DOT has refused to intervene). The $700 per passenger in funny money is useful to one who travels AA.
Air carriers overbook because that forms part of the fare structure. While AA does not sell "guaranteed" seats which cost more than those subject to oversale (or downgrade), it comes close.
Now that OP has explained that the refund and compensation were for three people, it seems fairly standard. The refund is a simple arithmetic calculation (which is likely unfair, but is AA's standard policy and DOT has refused to intervene). The $700 per passenger in funny money is useful to one who travels AA.
Jan 10, 2019, 6:51 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
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Posts: 21,422
So, you paid $6000 in fares and got 3300 in compensation, assuming you fly AA to use the voucher
So, basically, you gained $300 plus free one way economy travel (that other $3000 would make up for 1/2 of the business fare paid)
I will note that you do save tax money when using vouchers. Without researching, I think it is the excise tax, but I don't remember.
Seems reasonable. However, on the "equipment failure", are you saying the plane you took had the same number of business class seats as the one you were booked on? If so, then that would be worth complaining about.
So, basically, you gained $300 plus free one way economy travel (that other $3000 would make up for 1/2 of the business fare paid)
I will note that you do save tax money when using vouchers. Without researching, I think it is the excise tax, but I don't remember.
Seems reasonable. However, on the "equipment failure", are you saying the plane you took had the same number of business class seats as the one you were booked on? If so, then that would be worth complaining about.
Jan 10, 2019, 10:46 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: DL Gold; AA Plat.
Posts: 13
yeah obviously i understand if there is a plane change for whatever reason and there literally are less business class seats on flight.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
but it still boggles my mind that they can sell more seats that there physically are in business / first class. I mean I understand the making money aspect of it, but i do not understand the ethics of it. the fact that its business / first would imply a higher level of trust and service. Guess i am just old fashioned, if I charge my clients a premium price (which i warn them about beforehand), i deliver a premium product.
Regarding the negotiation, it sounds good to me! I would say that if you feel you reached an acceptable outcome (and hopefully had a good flight), you did well. Sure, there may be others that could have pushed this harder and maybe they could've gotten a bit more out of it. But was that really worth it to you? I hope you can put the voucher towards another great trip and enjoy that you got a good outcome from this situation.
Jan 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: PHL / NYC / PSA-BLQ
Programs: AA PPRO, Marriott/Hilton Gold, AMX-Plat, Global Entry
Posts: 3,109
So, you paid $6000 in fares and got 3300 in compensation, assuming you fly AA to use the voucher
So, basically, you gained $300 plus free one way economy travel (that other $3000 would make up for 1/2 of the business fare paid)
I will note that you do save tax money when using vouchers. Without researching, I think it is the excise tax, but I don't remember.
Seems reasonable. However, on the "equipment failure", are you saying the plane you took had the same number of business class seats as the one you were booked on? If so, then that would be worth complaining about.
So, basically, you gained $300 plus free one way economy travel (that other $3000 would make up for 1/2 of the business fare paid)
I will note that you do save tax money when using vouchers. Without researching, I think it is the excise tax, but I don't remember.
Seems reasonable. However, on the "equipment failure", are you saying the plane you took had the same number of business class seats as the one you were booked on? If so, then that would be worth complaining about.
a) bought 3 x ~$667 J tickets for $2000
b) got downgraded to MCE Y
c) got refunded $1100 on the tickets (=3 x $300 Y fares)
d) received @2100 in vouchers from AA
So they spend $900 on airfare, flew and got $2100 in vouchers = flying for free and getting $1200 of value as a gift.
Not to mention EQM - guess an interesting question is what EQD do you get?
Which also begs the question of do you get EQD when you use a voucher? (relevant to me as I'm sitting on $500 of vouchers right now).
BTW OP - pretty good.