Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
#76
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
Agreed that it's not even clear AA has carte blanche to omit stopovers or change the routing. Almost certainly, in normal cases, an advance re-routing would allow the passenger to refund the ticket. I'm pretty sure the substitution of an alternative carrier (e.g., a regional) would also trigger an allowed refund.
And just because they can (possibly) change the routing, doesn't mean that they should. Not without some form of consideration for the passenger, if requested. IMO.
AA really should have had the systems and/or policies in place to prevent the routing from becoming so convoluted in the first place after all the schedule changes. That they have chosen not to invest in this doesn't just give them the absolute right to do so well after the fact.
And just because they can (possibly) change the routing, doesn't mean that they should. Not without some form of consideration for the passenger, if requested. IMO.
AA really should have had the systems and/or policies in place to prevent the routing from becoming so convoluted in the first place after all the schedule changes. That they have chosen not to invest in this doesn't just give them the absolute right to do so well after the fact.
#77
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 489
This is similar to tax legislation and the issue of tax avoidance, which is perfectly legal but questionable. If the airlines have a problem with it, then they need to tighten their fare rules, the way governments need to tighten legislation. People should not be penalised for achieving their goals within the rules.
#78
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
This is similar to tax legislation and the issue of tax avoidance, which is perfectly legal but questionable. If the airlines have a problem with it, then they need to tighten their fare rules, the way governments need to tighten legislation. People should not be penalised for achieving their goals within the rules.
No need to "tighten" anything.
#79
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
The passenger's contract is the COC + fare rules for the specific ticket. The COC is plenty tight. If one purchase A-C with a connection at B, the carrier is free to reroute as A-C nonstop or with a connection at D. Presuming that the reroute is sufficient, the passenger would be entitled to cancel for a full refund.
No need to "tighten" anything.
No need to "tighten" anything.
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
#84
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vancouver
Programs: CX DM, SQ TPP, QF GO LIFE, OZ*G LIFE, Marriott TIT LIFE, WOH GLOBALIST LIFE, HH DM, BA GO LIFE
Posts: 598
I took an AA wacky itinerary two years ago for US$900 in First Class that went SFO-LAX-CLT-ORD-MIA-CLT-JFK-BOS-ORD-CLT-PHX-LAX-LAS-SFO.
Did a a few of these and earned my BAEC Lifetime Gold very quickly all thanks to AA’s domestic First Class earning on BAEC.
Now, this is all under the water as AA got smarter. Oh well, good things only last for a short time so enjoy it whilst you can as it ain’t going to last long.
#85
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
Already have, extensively. Unless it's your belief that I'm some kind of time-traveler, there has to be a reason that I tweeted that AA was starting to investigate these type of itins on November 24th:
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1066472965724872706
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1066472965724872706
Again, fix the fare rules and these things wont get booked in the first place.
Do any of you know about the India-PTY full F and J fares that were valid until AA pulled them in Sept? AA was oblivious to these sitting in the GDS for over a decade, at decade old prices and currency exchange rates. No transfer limits, only flight restriction was AA across the pacific, generous MPM, very cheap. You could make EXP on one until the EQD requirement. Or the AA BOM-MEX F fare that allowed routing via the Atlantic on EY A380 apartments on AUH-JFK? Or the CAI-MEX full J fare that allowed routing around MEA/EU then thru LAX and back across the east coast? Lots of fun and I am certain quite costly to AA. I laughed each time something like the exPEN fare woukd surface on FT and AA would pull that but leave all the other same vintage F, FR, J and JR fares in nearby markets sitting there. They had no idea they were there, even though they were being used. Geniuses!
If AA put more effort into looking at fares and rules they file they might not have to investigate anything... I dont have any particular skills other than to have realized that AA above almost any other carrier had hidden tons of gems in plain sight by just forgetting about them. Its funny to me knowing what i know about AA’s lack of ability to monitor their own fares that they want to blame this on their customers.
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
If this is the fare construction, namely AAA-BBB, BBB-CCC, and CCC-AAA (three fare components, so that effectively you're flying a triangle or doing a multicity itinerary), AA would be obligated to first get you to BBB and then to CCC before returning to AAA.
If AAA to BBB had been routed on the ticket as AAA-DDD-BBB (with DDD as a connection), AA would be free to reroute this portion of the itinerary as AAA-EEE-BBB or even AAA-FFF-GGG-BBB (although EC261 delay compensation could apply).
If AAA to BBB had been routed on the ticket as AAA-DDD-BBB (with DDD as a connection), AA would be free to reroute this portion of the itinerary as AAA-EEE-BBB or even AAA-FFF-GGG-BBB (although EC261 delay compensation could apply).
I’m aware that you have a strong opinion on this, but as I stated above the section of the contract of carriage quoted it in this thread says “if necessary.” I’m still trying to figure out how that gives the airline the right to unilaterally change your routing. Maybe you have other verbiage from it but all too often I just see people saying they airline can do what it wants and pointing to the contract of carriage. I think it’s an open question, but I do concede that it would be costly and difficult to find a way to challenge the airline. That said, I have flown all kinds of crazy routings, including ones where there is a far more direct way to go and I’ve never had an airline once question the decision I made or challenge me on it. I suspect the poster here was unlucky or maybe abrasive wound up talking to somebody at the airline who decided to flag his itinerary ( I don’t know for sure because I never read the original post before it was deleted) . I think the airlines have better things to do with their time, but it is what it is in this case.
Last edited by JY1024; Jan 10, 2019 at 10:01 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts
#87
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 8,937
Already have, extensively. Unless it's your belief that I'm some kind of time-traveler, there has to be a reason that I tweeted that AA was starting to investigate these type of itins on November 24th:
I’d also add that a couple of these are BAEC members doing tier-point runs with incredibly wacky routings including numerous, unnecessary, AA segments in the process. But others are much closer to outright fraud- a couple of really creative- but now very risky-strategies.
— JonNYC (@xJonNYC) November 24, 2018
— JonNYC (@xJonNYC) November 24, 2018
#88
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The FT AA forum, until it no longer wants me.
Programs: CK or bust
Posts: 1,913
Already have, extensively. Unless it's your belief that I'm some kind of time-traveler, there has to be a reason that I tweeted that AA was starting to investigate these type of itins on November 24th:
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1066472965724872706
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1066472965724872706
The first concrete evidence of time travel!
I never thought that I would witness it in my lifetime but then again the current political climate makes anything possible.
Before you know it there will be minimum time spend requirements even in time travel so make sure to get your time travel runs in before they crack down on those too
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,268
#90
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
it was 2 different tweets.
First one:
the one right below that one and indented adds:
and
-- clearly referring to the first tweet.
First one:
AA definitely becoming more prickly about cases of members manipulating fares/routings/etc to try and earn elite-qualifying credit beyond what is reasonable or intended...
I’d also add that a couple of these are BAEC members doing tier-point runs with incredibly wacky routings including numerous, unnecessary, AA segments in the process.
But others are much closer to outright fraud- a couple of really creative- but now very risky-strategies.