Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

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American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage

Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage

Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.

Your ticket is valid only when:

Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements

Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:

Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)

Your ticket is not valid when:

You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice

Exploiting fare rules

Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.

Examples include (but are not limited to):

Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares

If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:

Cancel any unused part of the ticket
Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.

Fare errors

If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.

When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:

72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure

AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)

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Jan 9, 2019, 5:45 pm

#91

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNYC

it was 2 different tweets.

Thanks for quoting the tweets in question. If I understand, a crazy routing that obviously is just to earn outsized EQM on AA is close to fraud, because the routing is so far from what would be reasonable for the fare, whereas a same-day or even same-plane turn on a trip purchased and flown just to earn EQM is fine, even if the passenger doesn't have time to leave the airport, because the routing is reasonable for the fare? I can see the logic, although I don't know how this might be worded for a CoC provision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

If someone books A-B-C-D-E-F , where there are no stopovers at any of B,C,D or E , then the airline is within its rights to involuntarily reroute the passenger on a non stop from A-F

You mean even without any delays or other operational issues causing misconnects? A passenger books A-B-C-D-E-F and at some subsequent time the airline arbitrarily reroutes the passenger onto a non-stop A-F? I've never heard of this. Can you point to the CoC clause or fare rules or IATA provision that authorizes this? Are there examples of this happening?

Last edited by JY1024; Jan 10, 2019 at 10:02 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts

Jan 9, 2019, 5:53 pm

#92

Often1

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AA does not have to prove anything to anybody. It may reroute under its COC and fare rules (tariff). It may well be that it has rerouted here because of the abusive nature of the routing, but that is not the only reason AA or other carriers force reroutes.

Jan 9, 2019, 5:54 pm

#93

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SAN_Finn

I would have more understanding for the airline if I wasn't forced to fly LAX-ORD-DFW with miles since "married segments" stop me from flying LAX-DFW directly. I fail to understand why its ok for the Airlines to screw us around making us fly extra segments on awards but then its not ok for us to do so with normal fares? My days of flying these are over but I once very much enjoyed some extra flying so I don't think its ok for AA to complain about this, its within the fare rules and COG.

I used to be forced into crazy award routings even before married segments were as much of an issue for awards, just because of AA's appalling SAAver award availability, but AA put a stop to that by imposing an arbitrary hard limit of four segments on an international award (three on a domestic). I've been burned by this using awards that included AUH and DOH because the Saudi Arabia-led embargo on Qatar eliminated direct flights, so you have to use an extra segment there. So, for example, DOH-AUH-JFK uses up three because you have to go DOH-xxx-AUH-JFK and doesn't leave room for any way to get from JFK to wherever in the U.S. unless you can magically find award availability on a non-stop. DOH-xxx-AUH-JFK-CLT-PHX-LAX used to be a routing one was forced to book, but now is two awards.

Jan 9, 2019, 5:57 pm

#94

Often1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by anabolism

AA's COC are explicit and in plain English:

"Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited"

Jan 9, 2019, 5:58 pm

#95

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Often1

Since I have never heard of this before, I am politely asking for clarification on which CoC clauses or fare rule elements or even IATA provisions provide for arbitrary involuntary reroutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Often1

AA's COC are explicit and in plain English:

"Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited"

That provides for AA's refusing to book a reservation that is made to exploit or circumvent a fare or ticket rule, or cancel (with refund) one that was made that way. It does not provide for arbitrary reroute. It's also not what I consider plain English, because fundamentally, reservations that exploit (meaning "make full use of and derive benefit from") fare and ticket rules are exceedingly common. One could reasonably say that FT itself exists to help people exploit fare and ticket rules. Now, circumventing fare or ticket rules is clearly grounds for refusing to issue a ticket or cancelling (with refund) one that was made. But the two are very different.

Last edited by JY1024; Jan 10, 2019 at 10:03 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts

Jan 9, 2019, 6:27 pm

#96

Bear96

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Quote:

Originally Posted by anabolism

A passenger books A-B-C-D-E-F and at some subsequent time the airline arbitrarily reroutes the passenger onto a non-stop A-F? I've never heard of this. Can you point to the CoC clause or fare rules or IATA provision that authorizes this?

Can you point to something that prohibits this? (Not trying to be snarky; genuinely curious.)

Jan 9, 2019, 7:27 pm

#97

stephem

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From the India-PTY F fares (routing via the Pacific):

Quote:

TRANSFERS 1 TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION
ANY COMBINATION OF THE FOLLOWING -
1 ONLINE ON AA
1 PERMITTED BETWEEN AA AND AA/BR/CA/CI/CX/
CZ/HU/JL/JQ/KA/KE/MH/MU/NU/OZ/PR/QF/SQ/TG/VN
IN UNITED STATES IN EACH DIRECTION.
AND - 2 TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION
ANY COMBINATION OF THE FOLLOWING -
2 ONLINE ON AA
2 INTERLINE INCLUDING AA
1 PERMITTED BETWEEN AA AND AA/BR/CA/CI/CX/
CZ/HU/JL/JQ/KA/KE/MH/MU/NU/OZ/PR/QF/SQ/TG/VN
IN AREA 3 IN EACH DIRECTION.
AND - UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION
ANY COMBINATION OF THE FOLLOWING -
UNLIMITED ONLINE ON AA.
FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND
EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE
COMPONENT.

From the BOM-MEX F fare:

Quote:

UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED. - SURFACE AT FARE BREAK
AND EMBEDDED SECTORS PERMITTED EXCEPT FOR PRICING UNITS
WITHIN/BETWEEN US AND CANADA - INCLUDING PR/USV1 -
SURFACE AT FARE BREAK IS NOT PERMITTED.

AA didn't like what we did with these fares?!? It's simple, don't file a fare with the words "Unlimited Transfers Permitted" in it. Also, consider some limits in the "flight application" section of the fare... maybe so you can't book yourself on the EY A380 BOM-AUH and then the AA coded version onward to JFK? One poster put some great screenshots in the CAI-MEX thread, have a look if you think i am exaggerating what could be done with these.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:28 pm

#98

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear96

Can you point to something that prohibits this? (Not trying to be snarky; genuinely curious.)

You're saying anything anything an airline might conceivably think of doing that isn't expressly forbidden is permitted? That's not a position I've seen expressed before regarding air tickets.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:39 pm

#99

JonNYC

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There were discussion group(s) where members exchanged various scams revolving around the PTY, Etc. fares (how to force them to credit improperly, etc.). AA had a specialist in the group.

Oops.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:45 pm

#100

skunker

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I think JonNYC might be hinting at using other means to change the fare from crediting as fare based to distance based under the special fare rules. For example, maybe adding an extra flight like is done for fuel dumping.

JonNYC and wrp96 like this.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:48 pm

#101

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

What clause of the CoC do you believe that it is in breack of ?

It hasn't forced a cancellaton ( which is something covered by DOT - as per error fares ) - all it has done is excercise its right to change the route to the destination

This is addressed in the CoC at https://www.aa.com/intl/es/footer_en...OfCarriage.jsp , in the section on fare changes

American may, without notice, substitute alternative carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket

(Bolding added.) To my reading, the "if necessary" clause means that AA may not arbitrarily alter or omit stopping places just because they feel like it. The wording clearly gives them the right to do so during delays or irregular operations. Wording elsewhere allows AA to change schedules. I don't see a right for AA to arbitrarily change the routing absent an operational need.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:54 pm

#102

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ijgordon

That's typically the kind of thing that would be argued in court. Persaonlly, I don't think AA has a very good argument, not after they already jerked around the OP with multiple schedule changes.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that AA "jerked around" the OP with multiple schedule changes, but it does seem that, in the hypothetical situation where this were to be argued in court (which I don't think anyone would actually do), the fact that multiple AA agents changed the reservation to accommodate schedule changes, reissuing the ticket each time, is evidence that AA accepted the ticket as valid.

ijgordon likes this.

Jan 9, 2019, 7:58 pm

#103

Antarius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNYC

There were discussion group(s) where members exchanged various scams revolving around the PTY, Etc. fares (how to force them to credit improperly, etc.). AA had a specialist in the group.

Oops.

Sure - but this refers to actual scams and circumventing fare rules. If AA sold a stupid fare with Unlimited Transfers and someone took advantage of that, that's completely different.

I guess the ongoing confusion is that we are seemingly conflating two very different concepts.

Jan 9, 2019, 8:02 pm

#104

JonNYC

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Antarius

I've explained this too many times already and it's not that complicated.

Jan 9, 2019, 8:04 pm

#105

anabolism

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skunker

Oh, that becomes more clear now. So, Jon is saying that it wasn't that the OP was abrasive to an agent who then flagged the itinerary for review, but that AA had people ("moles" I suppose you could say) in some groups where people were talking about ways to get an itinerary to credit as distance rather than fare, to earn far more RDM and EQD than would otherwise be the case, and the person was able to find the OP's itinerary from participation in the group.

Or maybe these are two separate issues, but related in that both are attempts to earn more than would normally be the case? The two issues being (1) excessive connections, and (2) ways to have an itinerary earn as distance-based rather than fare-based. And perhaps (1) was detected by looking for tickets with more than some number of connections and a fare basis that isn't, e.g., a OneWorld multi-continent fare, while (2) was detected through the "moles?"