Tintin

Thanks everyone. I called Diners Club US. They are not taking applications (not new information) and the CSR don't feel there is any plan to accept new applications in the foreseeable future. I asked if I may request an invitation to apply. She has nothing available to mail. I don't understand why BMO Harris doesn't want to take new applications. BTW, I was a Diners Club card holder until year 2003 (for its primary CDW/LDW coverage). Anyone know if I can use that very old closed relationship to open/re-open an account? Any special number to call?

Regarding Barclay's Silver card, I am thinking to payoff my full balance this month and then speak with a retention manager. I spend over $50,000 in the card this year for the 6,000 EQD. I made EXP from my flight based EQD/EQM but still kept spending on Silver Card because AA is using EQD to prioritize the upgrades. If Barclays offer a credit of $195 (or some other hard-to-refuse offer) then I will keep the card open . Otherwise close the account. Or, as jordyn suggested, perhaps convert the card to JetBlue as a backup. Anyone spoke with Silver card's retention managers?

Do you have a first-hand experience with "First Tech Credit Union"? Their Choice Card seems perfect for us (priority Chip-and-PIN, no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee, nice reward, etc.). But the Credit Union and its customer service received very poor reviews in Google search. Can anyone comment?

Barclay's Silver card was a good product. Citi was able to negotiate with AA and kept Admirals Club membership in the Executive card without increasing the annual fee (so far). My understanding was, Barclay's has a better relationship with the current management of AA. I wonder why they killed the Silver card. The card has no significant value anymore ($99 companion fare, which IADCAflyer likes, is valuable, but Alaska Air credit card's companion certificate is much better and can be used in most AA flights). I am really frustrated.

Back to my original question, is there anyone (recently) tried Citi's Executive card in the self-service terminals overseas to test if the Chip-and-PIN option is available?

Tintin

Thanks. This is a valuable information. I have Chase Amazon Prime Visa. But I haven't used it in the self-service terminals. When you use your Chase Hyatt card in the self-service terminals, does it ask for your PIN, or it just authenticate without PIN/Signature?

thorofare

I have used my Chase Private Client Visa debit card at self-service terminals in the UK, Germany, Spain, and Italy without any issue. No PIN required.

Tintin

Many Thanks. As far as I know, Debit cards use slightly different authentication/permission process, and often allow transactions from ATM-like machines with PIN. The money comes out of your checking/savings/cash account in real time. So banks argue that they carry less risk in allowing those transactions. However it is strange that the machines didn't request your PIN. I think the CVM of these cards are not correctly programmed. Imagine what may happen if some unauthorized person finds your debit card and know this information! But I might be wrong here. I am not an expert. Many thanks. This is an important information.

AA100k

Tintin

I am traveling to Amsterdam next week. I will test all my credit cards in the self-service terminals (such as, NS train ticket machine at AMS, tram/metro ticket machines, etc.). I have Citi's AA Executive MC, Citi AA MC, Chase Amazon Prime VC, Fidelity Elan VC, and AMEX Hilton Aspire card (plus Barclay's AA Silver MC, but we know it has Chip-and-PIN functionality). I will post here which of these cards are Chip-and-PIN enabled (if any, although, I am hopeful from AA100k's posts that, perhaps, Chase Amazon Prime VC is Chip-and-PIN enabled). I will post my findings here after the Thanksgiving.

I am taking one for the team.

Do you have any recommendation/advice about the self-service machines in Amsterdam? Do you want me to try any particular location/store/terminal/service?

ellinj

You can easily get a cheap reader on amazon and use cardpeek software to determine what card verifications options are loaded onto the chip. I did this recently and discovered that my USAA visa also had pin loaded as a fallback. Other than the Barclays no others had it.

bchandler02

My Citi AA Exec card did not work in the machines there for the local subway/trains. I think it did work in the NS rail machines but I can't remember. My debit card did work where it didnt.

jordyn

Yeah, important to note that some unattended machines still allow Chip+Signature cards even though they try to use Chip+PIN if available. So you want to be sure that you're using a terminal that requires a PIN before making strong conclusions. (Ideally you'd find a terminal that required offline Chip+PIN since that's the mode that the fewest cards support, but this is probably harder to tell.)

I'm quite certain that the AA Exec card does not support Chip+PIN. In general, US cards do NOT support Chip+PIN, so it's generally reasonable to assume that US-issued cards are Chip+Signature only unless you have relatively good reason to believe otherwise. Maybe this will change one day, but it's a fair statement of the state of play right now.

chris8796

I'm switching to the Barclay business card for the $3,000 EQD at $25,000. The chip and pin is an important consideration if you are an international traveler.

SoCalSLL

One thing to look out for is that there are two types of Chip+PIN. The first is online PIN, which is what all US banks issue if at all. The second is offline PIN, which is what most European banks issue. The difference as the name suggests is that online PIN cards require the terminal to be online to verify the PIN. While not an issue at hotels and stores, it does exclude a lot of small automated systems. Train, subway, gas pumps in Europe will most likely not work.

flightrisk

Some machines may "require" a PIN, but often just hitting Enter or using a PIN of "0000" still works with Chip+Signature cards. I've been thinking it's not worth keeping a Barclay just for the rare occurrence that this doesn't work.

sdsearch

There are two types of chip & PiN: "offline" and "online".

The Barclay Aviator cards support both. Some other cards only support one or other but not both. Some terminals in Europe work with both, while other terminals works with one or the other.

So that's why the Barclay cards are so valuable, because they work with both "offline" and "online" PIN requiring terminals.

You cannot tell whether a terminal wants "offline" or "online" PIN by looking. The only way to tell is by trying a card that has "online" PIN only, and if that fails, but card with both "offline' and "online" PIN works, you know it was an offline-PIN-only terminal.

And thus it is not possible to tell with a few random datapoints if a card will work at the maximum number of kiosks in Europe. You can only tell by knowing that it support both "offline" and "online" PIN.

Btw, in a few countries in Europe, there are kiosks which don't accept foreign cards at all, not matter what the chip technology. So that's why it's not possible to say that any US-issued card works in "all" European kiosks; the most you can say (for a card which support both "offline" and "online" PIN) is that it works at the "maximum number" of kiosks in Europe (or, to put it another way, at all kiosks in Europe which accept cards issued in North America).

mia

Diners Club USA removed AA as a transfer partner from Consumer and Professional cards several years ago. I believe AA is still a transfer partner for USA-issued Corporate cards, but in any event BMO is not interested in the personal or small business segment for Diners.

tmiw

Honestly, Europe (and other places) are going away from PIN altogether--at least for smaller transactions--in favor of tapping cards/phones. I'd see if adding a card to your phone's mobile wallet (e.g. Apple or Google Pay) would serve the same purpose for you as a card with PIN support; I know it did for ~95% of my transactions when I went to the UK last year--even at ticket machines and for riding the Underground. The only real exceptions where my cards had to be inserted were hotels and the one or two merchants who still had older terminals--and even then, chip and signature worked okay.

If you still feel that you need a card with PIN support, I'd echo the no-AF Barclays suggestions as likely the simplest option. The few available cards that prefer PIN, while nice (I did use my Diners Club MC a couple of times at the places where I needed to insert for convenience), do require more hoops to jump through.

BTW Citi's Mastercards do support PIN for purchases, but not offline PIN (and it's prioritized such that you may never be asked for it unless you happen upon an unattended terminal that truly can't handle anything other than PIN). BofA's credit cards are also configured similarly.

EDIT: I forgot to add that some US issuers are also beginning to offer contactless cards too. All of Chase's lineup will be switched over by the middle of next year, for instance, not to mention that most Capital One and AmEx cards and the Costco card have it available at least as an opt-in feature. The downside is that you won't be able to tap for larger purchases in some countries.