Family with Autistic Children prevented from flying AA
Oct 11, 2018, 8:50 pm
#46
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Who is anyone to decide what another person's children can or cannot do. The passengers did whatever possible in order to prepare. Even prepared for a last minute scenario like this, got assurances from American Airlines that they will still be allowed to fly. They were not, on account of some completely insensitive Gate Agents. Parents and children are unhappy, and here's someone who goes, suck it up, momma.
I don't know how you define human rights, but to make it easier for you, this is definitely a Civil Rights issue. Ever heard of the Americans with Disabilities Act? It covers ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). Which is probably why American Airlines has such a elaborate process in place for people with autism to be able to fly.
I don't know how you define human rights, but to make it easier for you, this is definitely a Civil Rights issue. Ever heard of the Americans with Disabilities Act? It covers ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). Which is probably why American Airlines has such a elaborate process in place for people with autism to be able to fly.
I'm sorry but I find this argument difficult to agree with. The airline employees are there to ensure the safety and security of EVERYONE on the aircraft, not just a child with ASD. There are considerable safety risks to everyone to allow any passenger who is potentially disruptive and unable to comply with crew member instructions to board an aircraft. This is why children who refuse to stay buckled in their seats are escorted off the aircraft with their parents. Imagine, if you will this aircraft experiencing a true emergency where passengers had to evacuate the aircraft, brace for impact or engage in some other difficult situation while parent, crew and others are trying to manage a potentially disruptive passenger. I get that individuals with ASD has the right to live lives to their level of ability and independence but there are times when that is overestimated.
Before anyone starts skewering the GAs on this one...you were not there. You have no idea what they were seeing. They are there is make sure the aircraft is safe BEFORE is pushes back. I do not know who was right here, but what I do know is that the needs of the entire aircraft, the safety and comfort of the entire aircraft need to be considered first and foremost. Not every GA is empathetic and easy going but, given what I see them endure the times I fly, their job is one most of us would not want.
Oct 11, 2018, 9:07 pm
#47
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It is ok. You won't be the first to irrationally stigmatize an affliction due to a misplaced perception. Much to the peril of the afflicted.
Oct 12, 2018, 8:27 am
#48
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I'm sorry but I find this argument difficult to agree with. The airline employees are there to ensure the safety and security of EVERYONE on the aircraft, not just a child with ASD. There are considerable safety risks to everyone to allow any passenger who is potentially disruptive and unable to comply with crew member instructions to board an aircraft.
Before anyone starts skewering the GAs on this one...you were not there. You have no idea what they were seeing. They are there is make sure the aircraft is safe BEFORE is pushes back. I do not know who was right here, but what I do know is that the needs of the entire aircraft, the safety and comfort of the entire aircraft need to be considered first and foremost. Not every GA is empathetic and easy going but, given what I see them endure the times I fly, their job is one most of us would not want.
Before anyone starts skewering the GAs on this one...you were not there. You have no idea what they were seeing. They are there is make sure the aircraft is safe BEFORE is pushes back. I do not know who was right here, but what I do know is that the needs of the entire aircraft, the safety and comfort of the entire aircraft need to be considered first and foremost. Not every GA is empathetic and easy going but, given what I see them endure the times I fly, their job is one most of us would not want.
But as to what happened at the gate ... we weren't there and only have one side of the story. The mother may have been right or perhaps she is only viewing things from her perspective which may have a bit of a prism. Obviously, it was a difficult situation for everyone.
But, by the mothers own description, despite all the best efforts by her and AA to prepare, she and her son were laying on the jetbridge while she was trying to calm him down. In thousands of flights, I've never seen that. Can we really objectively so easily blame the gate agent?
Note ... they were late to the airport and missed their flight because of a leaky sink and traffic. There were a large family and AA must have had some difficulty in rebooking this large group. Do you think that causes stress to the family? Then the gate agent lets them board early but they have the incident on the gateway ... Do you think that causes stress to the family? Obviously that stresses everyone out. That's not a matter of stigma ... that's a lot of stress on the family and I'm sure her son felt it which drove the situation.
So lets give the gate agent a break.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:19 am
#49
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According to one of the links in this thread the family was deplaned because the incident was holding the departure. That is absolutely the right decision. Besides the many what-ifs (crew timeout, downstream schedule, etc), you shouldn't be allowed to inconvenience 100+ other pax because your kid is having a temper tantrum.
Oct 12, 2018, 10:11 am
#50
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If the person is disrupting the boarding of the flight, why should it matter if it is due to a medical or non-medical issue.
I don't blame the person or their parents for the behavior, but if they are disruptive on the ground, they should NOT be permitted to fly.
The same for "emotional support animals". If you ESA dog is growling at someone before takeoff, it does not belong on the plane
I don't blame the person or their parents for the behavior, but if they are disruptive on the ground, they should NOT be permitted to fly.
The same for "emotional support animals". If you ESA dog is growling at someone before takeoff, it does not belong on the plane
Last edited by mvoight; Oct 12, 2018 at 9:18 pm
Oct 12, 2018, 10:54 am
#51
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What we don't know are the specifics. Was there a family argument or long discussion on how to proceed? Where the other children becoming agitated and loud? The GA is responsible for getting the flight board by T-10 so that the a/c is ready to push back by departure time. GAs have to make split second decisions and there's no time to get someone from corporate on the telephone line albeit was a supervisor called?
Oct 12, 2018, 12:54 pm
#52
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What we don't know are the specifics. Was there a family argument or long discussion on how to proceed? Where the other children becoming agitated and loud? The GA is responsible for getting the flight board by T-10 so that the a/c is ready to push back by departure time. GAs have to make split second decisions and there's no time to get someone from corporate on the telephone line albeit was a supervisor called?
Oct 12, 2018, 1:28 pm
#53
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Me thinks there is something more to this story. One news story said the family arrived at the airport late and at the goodness of AA was put on the next flight presumably also keeping the family seated together. One other poster said the late arrival was due to a leaky sink and traffic. Leaky sink? Just turn off the water until you arrive back home. Traffic? That's why you build in time particularly with a family. Back in the days well before Google Maps, Waze, etc. my parents got us (4 very rambunctious boys) to the airport well in time for flights.
Oct 12, 2018, 1:33 pm
#54
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But really, all we can do here is speculation as to what actually occurred, other than the few facts we have.
The only similar situation I’ve observed personally was when a young person with some kind of behavioral disorder (perhaps Tourette’s?) boarded a DC-10 in Miami with his parent / guardian / escort and responded to the stressors of boarding and a strange location by beginning to vocalize loudly and ending with shouting about his fears of a bomb. Employees escorted them off the aircraft, even as he pleaded not to be ejected, in as loud a voice (shouting). I could tell a number of passengers were upset or frightened; I count if any explanation over the public address system would have calmed everyone down.
Oct 12, 2018, 8:49 pm
#55
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I would hope you would recognize the difference between people who should be able to respond to societal norms of behavior and make us all comfortable with each other in an enclosed space: Down's syndrome, autism, other forms of mental retardation (I hate "special needs": it's part of PC culture). These people need respect and dignity just like anyone else.
This differs from the "runaway child": e.g. one whose parent(s) have not bothered to teach them manners that would ask them to respect the needs of others in an enclosed or any other space. See the woman who decided to toilet train her child in the aisle at 34,000 ft! You may proceed to chastise her and her child for their behavior, I have no problem with that
.
I sat with an 18 y/o woman who was coming home with her premature child, just released from hospital to be able to go visit her parents. Child had Feeding tube and some other residual health issues, also cute as a button! I helped her change the baby twice from Chicago to Omaha, as if I was a member of family and proud to do so, especially when I saw her parents meet and hug they new grandchild. See, some bad things are really good, if you look at the outcomes.....
This differs from the "runaway child": e.g. one whose parent(s) have not bothered to teach them manners that would ask them to respect the needs of others in an enclosed or any other space. See the woman who decided to toilet train her child in the aisle at 34,000 ft! You may proceed to chastise her and her child for their behavior, I have no problem with that
.I sat with an 18 y/o woman who was coming home with her premature child, just released from hospital to be able to go visit her parents. Child had Feeding tube and some other residual health issues, also cute as a button! I helped her change the baby twice from Chicago to Omaha, as if I was a member of family and proud to do so, especially when I saw her parents meet and hug they new grandchild. See, some bad things are really good, if you look at the outcomes.....
Oct 12, 2018, 8:55 pm
#56
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According to one of the links in this thread the family was deplaned because the incident was holding the departure. That is absolutely the right decision. Besides the many what-ifs (crew timeout, downstream schedule, etc), you shouldn't be allowed to inconvenience 100+ other pax because your kid is having a temper tantrum.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:28 pm
#57
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Unfriendly, overly personalized posts have been deleted (as well as a civil reply to now deleted posts).
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If anyone needs to read or reread the FlyerTalk Rules’ provisions about how we treat others here can read them , particularly the Rules
12. Abusive or disruptive behavior or content (link to this Rule)
. . . Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming
. . . Avoid Getting Personal
. . . Disruptive or repetitive posting
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Oct 12, 2018, 9:38 pm
#58
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sounds similar to my UA Flight experience today when arriving passenger on inbound aircraft had a motorized wheelchair. It had to be extracted from cargo and the passenger wouldn’t let anyone touch it. Flight boarded and left 40 minutes late causing several pax to miss connecting flights. IMO UA should have quickly removed pax on gate wheelchair and then sorted out the personal wheelchair issue.
Oct 13, 2018, 7:14 am
#59
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trying to tie the previous post mentioning deplaning and pax delay to my situation. Yesterday 150 pax were inconvenienced and some then missed connections because one pax was belligerent about their motorized wheelchair. Look I feel for that pax but why the airline didn’t get the pax off quickly on the narrow chair and then transfer her is beyond me. Maybe they tried dunno. We were on the outside looking in so to speak.
So point is... where do we draw the line when the one seriously inconveniences, or makes feel uncomfortable, the many?
So point is... where do we draw the line when the one seriously inconveniences, or makes feel uncomfortable, the many?
Oct 13, 2018, 5:13 pm
#60
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trying to tie the previous post mentioning deplaning and pax delay to my situation. Yesterday 150 pax were inconvenienced and some then missed connections because one pax was belligerent about their motorized wheelchair. Look I feel for that pax but why the airline didn’t get the pax off quickly on the narrow chair and then transfer her is beyond me. Maybe they tried dunno. We were on the outside looking in so to speak.
So point is... where do we draw the line when the one seriously inconveniences, or makes feel uncomfortable, the many?