AA 787 Dreamliner NOT affected by new FAA range restrictions
May 10, 2018, 8:55 am
#1
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AA 787 Dreamliner NOT affected by new FAA range restrictions
As reported in many media (including FlyerTalk), the FAA has issued an Airworthiness Directive (AD note) restricting Boeing 787 Dreamliner equipped with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines to ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) 140 due to engine reliability problems.
This means RR-equipped Dreamliner can not be over 140 minutes / 2:20 hours from potential diversion airports at any time flying overwater sectors (to protect the aircraft if restricted to flying on a single engine due to engine failure). AA chose the GEnx 1B engines for its Dreamliner; GE engines are not affected by the FAA AD note. GEnx powered 787s were awarded ETOPS 330 (5:30 hours) certification (properly equipped and maintained); that range covers approximately 97% of the Earth’s surface.
You can see ETOPS and effects on routes by using Great Circle Mapper here and entering the closes ETOPS limits, 138 or 330.
AA planned operations with the 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft have not been affected by the FAA AD note.
(AA partners in bold.)
The sample ETOPS routing and information is Frim Grest Circle Mapper.
This means RR-equipped Dreamliner can not be over 140 minutes / 2:20 hours from potential diversion airports at any time flying overwater sectors (to protect the aircraft if restricted to flying on a single engine due to engine failure). AA chose the GEnx 1B engines for its Dreamliner; GE engines are not affected by the FAA AD note. GEnx powered 787s were awarded ETOPS 330 (5:30 hours) certification (properly equipped and maintained); that range covers approximately 97% of the Earth’s surface.
You can see ETOPS and effects on routes by using Great Circle Mapper here and entering the closes ETOPS limits, 138 or 330.
AA planned operations with the 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft have not been affected by the FAA AD note.
FT TalkMail: According to ch-aviation, the most recent restrictions will affect nearly a dozen carriers including British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Norwegian, LATAM, Thai Airways, Avianca, Air New Zealand, Air Europa, LOT, Ethiopian, Royal Brunei and Scoot. In August of 2016, All Nippon Airways announced it would replace the Rolls Royce engines on all 50 of the Dreamliners in its fleet citing “multiple engine problems” eerily similar to those described in the latest AD.
The sample ETOPS routing and information is Frim Grest Circle Mapper.
Last edited by JDiver; May 10, 2018 at 8:14 pm Reason: Credit Wikimedia, add GCM instead of previous illustration
May 10, 2018, 10:07 am
#2
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I think credit should be given to source of ETOPS image.
May 10, 2018, 10:32 am
#5
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I think credit should be given to source of ETOPS image.
The information was preemptively posted here because many members are likely to be unaware of the differences in the RR and GE powered Dreamliners, and given both the FAA AD note publicity and the AA fleet plan, which is heavily reliant on 787 types going forward, may be potential (unjustified, in this instance) cause for concern to at least some AA flyers.
I have scheduled a future BA 789 AAdvantage award flight myself, for example. Those using TN to fly LAX-PPT could be affected, depending on which engine TN has selected for its 787-9 operations, scheduled to begin LAX-PPT 8 November 2018. Easily doable with ETOPS 330, not possible with ETOPS 140 restrictions.
The issue will undoubtedly be used by GE powered 787 operating Airlines to their commercial advantage.
May 10, 2018, 5:03 pm
#7
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It appears to be from here, which acknowledges that FAA site. It should be noted for clarity that the "rated time" referenced in the image is the non-ETOPS-rated time.
However the problem, as FlyingEgghead also pointed out, is that the diagram is actually mislabeled. If R is the "Distance traveled in rated time with one engine operative" in the context of the ETOPS wiki article, that would make R the ETOPS rated distance. This would then make the blue dotted the line ETOPS "legal" flight path as aircraft has to stay within flying distance of those diversion points. That would make the green line an illegal flight path.
Imagine if one of the questions on the ATP license exam is to draw a diagram explaining ETOPS and that is Vladsinger's answer. Would you want Vladsinger to be your pilot on a oceanic flight? Vladsinger's flight announcement would be "Ladies and Gentlemen, while the flight computer is suggesting a flight time of 15 hours from LAX to SYD, I know a shortcut that will get us there in 12."
Last edited by seawolf; May 10, 2018 at 7:57 pm
May 10, 2018, 7:17 pm
#8
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I suggest just deleting that diagram.
The link to ETOPS maps on GCM is http://www.gcmap.com/mapui (or am I the only one getting a 404 with the link in the original post?)
The link to ETOPS maps on GCM is http://www.gcmap.com/mapui (or am I the only one getting a 404 with the link in the original post?)
Last edited by CPRich; May 10, 2018 at 7:23 pm
May 10, 2018, 8:15 pm
#9
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Thank you all. I’ve replaced the ETOPS illustration with one from Great Circle Mapper and repaired the GC Mapper URL link.
If LATAM abides by the FAA AD, no more 787-9 SCL-AKL with their original routing until the AD is addressed satisfactorily by Rolls Royce and withdrawn by the FAA.
If LATAM abides by the FAA AD, no more 787-9 SCL-AKL with their original routing until the AD is addressed satisfactorily by Rolls Royce and withdrawn by the FAA.
May 11, 2018, 8:50 am
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I have scheduled a future BA 789 AAdvantage award flight myself, for example. Those using TN to fly LAX-PPT could be affected, depending on which engine TN has selected for its 787-9 operations, scheduled to begin LAX-PPT 8 November 2018. Easily doable with ETOPS 330, not possible with ETOPS 140 restrictions.
LATAM is wet leasing four A330s from Spanish airline Wamos to operate the JFK-GYE, MAD-GYE, LIM-JFK and SCL-BOG routes, and reportedly have also leased a Wamos 747-400 for SCL-LIM-LAX flights (not announced yet). LATAM Brasil is transferring 4 77Ws and LATAM Argentina 2 A320s to LATAM Chile to make up for lost lift.
No word on SCL-AKL but apparently the 787-800 operating that route doesn't have Block C engines and therefore isn't subject to the ETOPS restriction. (Despite that, NZ has switched to the ETOPS-330 77E on AKL-EZE for the time being.)
May 11, 2018, 3:14 pm
#11
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BA has filed paperwork with the UK CAA seeking approval to wet lease QR A330s to help make up for long haul lift.
LATAM is wet leasing four A330s from Spanish airline Wamos to operate the JFK-GYE, MAD-GYE, LIM-JFK and SCL-BOG routes, and reportedly have also leased a Wamos 747-400 for SCL-LIM-LAX flights (not announced yet). LATAM Brasil is transferring 4 77Ws and LATAM Argentina 2 A320s to LATAM Chile to make up for lost lift.
No word on SCL-AKL but apparently the 787-800 operating that route doesn't have Block C engines and therefore isn't subject to the ETOPS restriction. (Despite that, NZ has switched to the ETOPS-330 77E on AKL-EZE for the time being.)
LATAM is wet leasing four A330s from Spanish airline Wamos to operate the JFK-GYE, MAD-GYE, LIM-JFK and SCL-BOG routes, and reportedly have also leased a Wamos 747-400 for SCL-LIM-LAX flights (not announced yet). LATAM Brasil is transferring 4 77Ws and LATAM Argentina 2 A320s to LATAM Chile to make up for lost lift.
No word on SCL-AKL but apparently the 787-800 operating that route doesn't have Block C engines and therefore isn't subject to the ETOPS restriction. (Despite that, NZ has switched to the ETOPS-330 77E on AKL-EZE for the time being.)