ARCHIVE: AA reducing 45 Business Class seats to 37 from the “45” 777 / 772
Feb 16, 2018, 10:08 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: KCGX
Posts: 144
The 45J config was the original plan; US Airways executives reduced that to 37. They’ve likely been targeted for some anger by “downgraded” passengers scheduled for 45J birds when equipment substitutions inserted a 37J bird into the schedule, as well as some upset among Dispatchers and cabin crew.
They’ve now decided to standardize the fleet as much as possible, without spending significant money for 104 new Super Diamond seats (and attendant spares). As a small bonus, they get 104 spare seats - Zodiac and AA are done with seat contracts for now, and I’m imagining with the “make me a one off cheaper version” seat fiasco they may never have gotten much in the way of spares.
Much of this could have been avoided if the discount mentality had been shelved and the best in class 77W Zodiac Cirrus seat had been ordered and the entire 777 fleet standardized for Business Class seats, but AA passengers apparently weren’t worth it. SMH. That mentality won’t admit mistakes or order additional B/E Super Diamond seats.
They’ve now decided to standardize the fleet as much as possible, without spending significant money for 104 new Super Diamond seats (and attendant spares). As a small bonus, they get 104 spare seats - Zodiac and AA are done with seat contracts for now, and I’m imagining with the “make me a one off cheaper version” seat fiasco they may never have gotten much in the way of spares.
Much of this could have been avoided if the discount mentality had been shelved and the best in class 77W Zodiac Cirrus seat had been ordered and the entire 777 fleet standardized for Business Class seats, but AA passengers apparently weren’t worth it. SMH. That mentality won’t admit mistakes or order additional B/E Super Diamond seats.
Feb 16, 2018, 10:18 am
#17
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LUS Exec staff is responsible for the decision about reducing the 45J to 37J; I can see their points and agree. (Upgraders will be unhappy, but others will be happy they didn’t unknowingly select seats on the 45J that don’t exist on the 37J swapped in on their flight at last moment.)
Feb 16, 2018, 12:39 pm
#18
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...
Discount thinking is discount thinking, regardless of whether the decision makers were LAA or LUS. Someone decided it would be brilliant to cob up a cheaper model because the class-leading Zodiac Cirrus was too good for us, the flying hoi polloi. .... merely stated my opinion about the mentality involved.
LUS Exec staff is responsible for the decision about reducing the 45J to 37J; I can see their points and agree. (Upgraders will be unhappy, ... .
Discount thinking is discount thinking, regardless of whether the decision makers were LAA or LUS. Someone decided it would be brilliant to cob up a cheaper model because the class-leading Zodiac Cirrus was too good for us, the flying hoi polloi. .... merely stated my opinion about the mentality involved.
LUS Exec staff is responsible for the decision about reducing the 45J to 37J; I can see their points and agree. (Upgraders will be unhappy, ... .
I honestly don't see one iota of that from AA current management, IMHO. This, once again, is IMHO, because just about every decision they have made, is beneficial to AA & AA Manglement, and neutral at best for the customer/pax.
YMMV
Feb 16, 2018, 12:49 pm
#19
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From First to Worst.
Just another enhAAncement.....
Kudos to the many front line AA employees on keeping a professional service oriented approach to it's EP's.
Feb 16, 2018, 1:02 pm
#20
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How does it not make sense to standardise on the number of seats?
Feb 16, 2018, 1:18 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2011
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I understand discount thinking. But there is huge difference between Walmart and the late, great K-Mart. It starts with what should be a basic: Know your customers wants, needs, and desires. And respect (and sell to) those wants, needs and desires.
I honestly don't see one iota of that from AA current management, IMHO.
I honestly don't see one iota of that from AA current management, IMHO.
But I do not believe the reduction of 8 total J seats on 7% of the longhaul fleet should be placed put into this category.
Feb 16, 2018, 2:10 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: KCGX
Posts: 144
I’m not. Discount thinking is discount thinking, regardless of whether the decision makers were LAA or LUS. Someone decided it would be brilliant to cob up a cheaper model because the class-leading Zodiac Cirrus was too good for us, the flying hoi polloi. My post made no implications about who that person was nor which airline they worked for, merely stated my opinion about the mentality involved.
LUS Exec staff is responsible for the decision about reducing the 45J to 37J; I can see their points and agree. (Upgraders will be unhappy, but others will be happy they didn’t unknowingly select seats on the 45J that don’t exist on the 37J swapped in on their flight at last moment.)
LUS Exec staff is responsible for the decision about reducing the 45J to 37J; I can see their points and agree. (Upgraders will be unhappy, but others will be happy they didn’t unknowingly select seats on the 45J that don’t exist on the 37J swapped in on their flight at last moment.)
Feb 16, 2018, 2:37 pm
#23
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: BNA
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Seems like a basic idea that should have been addressed long ago when developing the fleet strategy.
Going back now and retrofitting new'ish planes seems like a big time fail.
Going back now and retrofitting new'ish planes seems like a big time fail.
Feb 16, 2018, 3:02 pm
#24
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Once a decision was made to reduce the number of seats, going back and adjusting the cabins with the higher number seems to be sensible to me
Feb 16, 2018, 5:34 pm
#25
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I understand discount thinking. But there is huge difference between Walmart and the late, great K-Mart. It starts with what should be a basic: Know your customers wants, needs, and desires. And respect (and sell to) those wants, needs and desires.
I honestly don't see one iota of that from AA current management, IMHO. This, once again, is IMHO, because just about every decision they have made, is beneficial to AA & AA Manglement, and neutral at best for the customer/pax.
YMMV
I honestly don't see one iota of that from AA current management, IMHO. This, once again, is IMHO, because just about every decision they have made, is beneficial to AA & AA Manglement, and neutral at best for the customer/pax.
YMMV
This left AA with 787-8s sitting in the desert, seatless. Boeing declined to alter payment schedules, as they delivered on time and the seats weren’t Boeing’s problem.
On top of that they decided to change the number of seats. I’m sure passengers were affected by unplanned equipment substitutions, requiring some to be downgraded, resulting in unhappy passengers - paid, award or upgraded, they’d be unhappy.
AA had to find a new J seat provider after the Zodiac debacle, delaying full implementation of the all-aisle access fully flat J seat and making AA the foot dragger in implementing significantly delayed oneworld JBA agreement to offer only full flat transatlantic Business cabins. I’ll bet the Super Diamond cost more than the D grade Concept D as well.
Finally, none of this much enhanced the AA brand. IMO, in some similar scenarios, someone would have been terminated for faulty thinking abd recommendations. At least in the corporations ive worked with.
Within this context, it does make sense they chose to justify the fleet by moving to an all 37J 772 fleet.
Feb 16, 2018, 10:21 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
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I disagree. First, rather than use the Zodiac near-OEM Cirrus used on the 77W, AA management (well, individuals within management) were approved to try to negotiate a cheaper seat with Zodiac, resulting in the inferior one-off for AA Concept D. They saved money, but got a seat with poorer fit and finish, “Motion over the ocean” and inoperative privacy screens that Zodiac couldn’t manufacture within the contracted deadline.
This left AA with 787-8s sitting in the desert, seatless. Boeing declined to alter payment schedules, as they delivered on time and the seats weren’t Boeing’s problem.
On top of that they decided to change the number of seats. I’m sure passengers were affected by unplanned equipment substitutions, requiring some to be downgraded, resulting in unhappy passengers - paid, award or upgraded, they’d be unhappy.
AA had to find a new J seat provider after the Zodiac debacle, delaying full implementation of the all-aisle access fully flat J seat and making AA the foot dragger in implementing significantly delayed oneworld JBA agreement to offer only full flat transatlantic Business cabins. I’ll bet the Super Diamond cost more than the D grade Concept D as well.
Finally, none of this much enhanced the AA brand. IMO, in some similar scenarios, someone would have been terminated for faulty thinking abd recommendations. At least in the corporations ive worked with.
Within this context, it does make sense they chose to justify the fleet by moving to an all 37J 772 fleet.
This left AA with 787-8s sitting in the desert, seatless. Boeing declined to alter payment schedules, as they delivered on time and the seats weren’t Boeing’s problem.
On top of that they decided to change the number of seats. I’m sure passengers were affected by unplanned equipment substitutions, requiring some to be downgraded, resulting in unhappy passengers - paid, award or upgraded, they’d be unhappy.
AA had to find a new J seat provider after the Zodiac debacle, delaying full implementation of the all-aisle access fully flat J seat and making AA the foot dragger in implementing significantly delayed oneworld JBA agreement to offer only full flat transatlantic Business cabins. I’ll bet the Super Diamond cost more than the D grade Concept D as well.
Finally, none of this much enhanced the AA brand. IMO, in some similar scenarios, someone would have been terminated for faulty thinking abd recommendations. At least in the corporations ive worked with.
Within this context, it does make sense they chose to justify the fleet by moving to an all 37J 772 fleet.
Feb 17, 2018, 6:37 am
#27
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 63
I have several trips planned this year and have already selected seats in the mini cabin. Should i be changing to seats to front section? Or will they make sure i keep a business class seat because i was booked early?
I have no status.
I have no status.
Feb 17, 2018, 7:09 am
#28
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Feb 17, 2018, 8:22 am
#29
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Feb 17, 2018, 9:35 am
#30
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: RDU
Posts: 2,264
Fleet consistency is logical and an excellent spin. But it seems clear that over time AA has determined that they simply don't need as many premium seats as they have historically had in their fleet. PEY will muddle with the data a bit but consider the 777-200 3-class had 21% premium seats (16F/37J/194Y).
The 45J 777-200 has 45J/205Y = 17% premium seats
The current 37J has 37J/252Y= 13% premium seats
For comparison, the 788 has 28J/198Y = 12% premium seats
(Some of the Y seats are MCE, but still not a premium seat).
The 45J 777-200 has 45J/205Y = 17% premium seats
The current 37J has 37J/252Y= 13% premium seats
For comparison, the 788 has 28J/198Y = 12% premium seats
(Some of the Y seats are MCE, but still not a premium seat).