AA, please change your standby/upgrade procedure for first class tickets!
Dec 19, 2017, 4:36 pm
#76
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
You are almost correct, but alas still wrong.
OS shows first on the PALL. Correct.
UPG shows next. Correct.
RF/RI/RV shows next. Correct.
However, every customer on the PALL is assigned a numerical priority number. Requests should be processed in that order.
And there DSR and RF rank above UPG.
Example of a PALL:
1 OS2
2 OS5
4 UPG2
5 UPG3
3 RF
#3 would receive an F seat before #4 and #5 .
For those with access to Jetnet, you can review the PALLs for flights 289 or 390. LGA-ORD, 18DEC17 (yesterday). RF trumps UPG.
OS shows first on the PALL. Correct.
UPG shows next. Correct.
RF/RI/RV shows next. Correct.
However, every customer on the PALL is assigned a numerical priority number. Requests should be processed in that order.
And there DSR and RF rank above UPG.
Example of a PALL:
1 OS2
2 OS5
4 UPG2
5 UPG3
3 RF
#3 would receive an F seat before #4 and #5 .
For those with access to Jetnet, you can review the PALLs for flights 289 or 390. LGA-ORD, 18DEC17 (yesterday). RF trumps UPG.
Dec 19, 2017, 5:25 pm
#77
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
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Posts: 8,315
I knew folks who would buy F on a 321 LAX-MIA then SDFC to the 77W and get in first (before they realigned fare classes). Quite a bit cheaper.
I don't necessariy disagree with the suggestion, the logic behind it (pay F, get F on standby) goes counter to the logic that AA has set up - pay I, get I, pay D, get D. Otherwise you should be able to SDFC without needing the specific fare class available.
And maybe, when the dust settles, we'll see that what the OP wants is current policy anyway (as many knowledgable folks seem to think).
I don't necessariy disagree with the suggestion, the logic behind it (pay F, get F on standby) goes counter to the logic that AA has set up - pay I, get I, pay D, get D. Otherwise you should be able to SDFC without needing the specific fare class available.
And maybe, when the dust settles, we'll see that what the OP wants is current policy anyway (as many knowledgable folks seem to think).
Dec 19, 2017, 5:59 pm
#78
Join Date: Jan 2003
Programs: American Airlines Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 3,790
I think the logic is:
If you buy a coach seat, you are entitled to get a coach seat. (Maybe you'll get upgraded, but none of us (as far as I know) have 100% upgrade success rates over time, so upgrades aren't guaranteed.)
If you buy a first class seat, you are entitled to get a first class seat.
If you buy a coach seat, you are entitled to get a coach seat. (Maybe you'll get upgraded, but none of us (as far as I know) have 100% upgrade success rates over time, so upgrades aren't guaranteed.)
If you buy a first class seat, you are entitled to get a first class seat.
Dec 19, 2017, 6:06 pm
#79
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,315
I understand the logic behind the request, but it is in variance with soime AA procedures, such as SDFC, Y-up marketed as First where you need to read buried boilerplate to find out it isn't first.
And some of the reason for the procedures is that you aren't buying just a seat, you are buying the fare rules associated with the ticket. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there is a fare class that goes into F that doesn't allow any standby (i thought I saw one that didn't allow any changes whatsover, not even a change fee).
I'm not against the position, just pointing out the logic is far from airtight due to the fare rules, and the price variations between different flights for the same class due to departure time desirability and hard product (as mentioned up thread).
If AA wanted to do this, the easiest would be do allow SDFC as long as there was an F seat available.
And some of the reason for the procedures is that you aren't buying just a seat, you are buying the fare rules associated with the ticket. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there is a fare class that goes into F that doesn't allow any standby (i thought I saw one that didn't allow any changes whatsover, not even a change fee).
I'm not against the position, just pointing out the logic is far from airtight due to the fare rules, and the price variations between different flights for the same class due to departure time desirability and hard product (as mentioned up thread).
If AA wanted to do this, the easiest would be do allow SDFC as long as there was an F seat available.
Last edited by beachfan; Dec 19, 2017 at 6:12 pm
Dec 19, 2017, 7:06 pm
#80
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,590
Dec 19, 2017, 8:11 pm
#82
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
In fact—and I believe the point has been made by others above—it seems quite unfair (assuming it is the case that UPG > RF in terms of priority) that someone who paid for Y on, say, an A321 LAX-MIA flight can confirm onto the 77W flight (assuming there is E space) and then have a better chance of getting a first class seat than someone who paid for F on the same A321 flight.
Dec 19, 2017, 8:40 pm
#83
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
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I don’t follow how the proposition that RF should be prioritized over UPG is inconsistent with AA’s SDFC policy for first. The argument isn’t that those who pay for first should get first, but rather that those who pay for first should get priority for any available first class seat over those who have not paid for first. I really don’t see the relevance of AA’s SDFC policy in terms of how those standing by with paid first should be prioritized for first class seats with respect to those who haven’t paid for first.
In fact—and I believe the point has been made by others above—it seems quite unfair (assuming it is the case that UPG > RF in terms of priority) that someone who paid for Y on, say, an A321 LAX-MIA flight can confirm onto the 77W flight (assuming there is E space) and then have a better chance of getting a first class seat than someone who paid for F on the same A321 flight.
You don't just buy a seat, you buy a seat with fare rules that govern when and how you can change flights. And they sell tickets in F that give the flexibility desired, but folks don't want to pay for that. And the restrictions are a reason why folks buy the more expensive fare. Getting what you paid for includes the fare rules.
As I said, I don't find the proposal unreasonable, but the same sense of entitlement F buyers feel upgraders have seems to be on both sides of the fence.
Dec 19, 2017, 8:52 pm
#84
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: SoCal to the rest of the world...
Programs: AA EXP with lots of BA. UA 2MM Lifetime Plat - No longer chase hotel loyalty
Posts: 6,699
I fail to see the issue. I'm one of those were last minute in a booked J fare I'm looking to switch to an earlier flight and I get it. The IT platform should be a bit smarter though to not list you as #1 if it will likely bypass you as you aren't confirmed on the flight yet.
Dec 19, 2017, 9:05 pm
#85
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
Why not just prioritize upgrade by fare paid? Since they don't, one must assume It's because they prioritize customer who is not the fare.
You don't just buy a seat, you buy a seat with fare rules that govern when and how you can change flights. And they sell tickets in F that give the flexibility desired, but folks don't want to pay for that. And the restrictions are a reason why folks buy the more expensive fare. Getting what you paid for includes the fare rules.
As I said, I don't find the proposal unreasonable, but the same sense of entitlement F buyers feel upgraders have seems to be on both sides of the fence.
You don't just buy a seat, you buy a seat with fare rules that govern when and how you can change flights. And they sell tickets in F that give the flexibility desired, but folks don't want to pay for that. And the restrictions are a reason why folks buy the more expensive fare. Getting what you paid for includes the fare rules.
As I said, I don't find the proposal unreasonable, but the same sense of entitlement F buyers feel upgraders have seems to be on both sides of the fence.
All else being equal, the proposition that RF > UPG is basically an argument that priority should be based on fare paid. Of course, all is not equal, and depending on many factors, sometimes those flying in economy have paid more than those flying in first. But I would hazard to say that on the whole, RF > UPG is closer to prioritizing based on fare paid than UPG > RF.
Last edited by flyingeph12; Dec 19, 2017 at 9:13 pm
Dec 19, 2017, 9:27 pm
#86
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
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Posts: 1,133
To add fuel to the fire, here’s a thread about a Y pax upgraded to F and then downgraded for a (presumably) CK who wanted an F seat on that flight:
Dec 19, 2017, 11:59 pm
#87
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,590
To add fuel to the fire, here’s a thread about a Y pax upgraded to F and then downgraded for a (presumably) CK who wanted an F seat on that flight:
In any event, thanks for playing
Dec 20, 2017, 2:06 am
#88
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
Since you didn't read the thread... it's about a CK who was upgraded 24 hours in advance, boarded the flight, and then was downgraded to accommodate Neon Deion, who may or may not be a celebrity. More importantly, though, we don't know anything about DS relationship with the airline.
In any event, thanks for playing
In any event, thanks for playing
Sorry if confusing, my story had nothing to do with that line of discussion.
A GA informing pax on flight A that there will be no upgrades confirmed today because a pax from (later) flight B, who is both CK and travelling on full fare F, wants the seat makes zero sense. Forget the status level of the pax from flight B - it doesn't matter. If travelling on a F fare, either paid (likely aairpass) or Anytime Award, you can confirm the flight change as long as the desired flight shows at least F1. If pax wanted that seat, pax could take that seat at will. But sitting around playing games leaves that seat open for the taking any number of things could happen to it.
If the GA's story was truthful, any agent that pax spoke to about their desire to switch could have made the change instantly. Pax could have made the change online as well.
A GA informing pax on flight A that there will be no upgrades confirmed today because a pax from (later) flight B, who is both CK and travelling on full fare F, wants the seat makes zero sense. Forget the status level of the pax from flight B - it doesn't matter. If travelling on a F fare, either paid (likely aairpass) or Anytime Award, you can confirm the flight change as long as the desired flight shows at least F1. If pax wanted that seat, pax could take that seat at will. But sitting around playing games leaves that seat open for the taking any number of things could happen to it.
If the GA's story was truthful, any agent that pax spoke to about their desire to switch could have made the change instantly. Pax could have made the change online as well.
No, I bought a first-class ticket to get a first-class seat, including on other flights that I go standby on as long as they have FC seats available before clearing coach upgrades. That's common sense and it's AA policy.
As stated above and in other threads, AA's policy is that paid FC tickets clear standby lists before coach upgrades to FC; the policy is just rarely followed.
As stated above and in other threads, AA's policy is that paid FC tickets clear standby lists before coach upgrades to FC; the policy is just rarely followed.
Last edited by HofstraJet; Dec 20, 2017 at 2:14 am
Dec 20, 2017, 10:09 am
#89
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,590
So you're in the camp that AA should start downgrading pax if someone who paid F wants to switch flights? Different discussion altogether.
Last edited by 869; Dec 20, 2017 at 10:31 am Reason: gram
Dec 20, 2017, 12:44 pm
#90
Join Date: Jan 2003
Programs: American Airlines Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 3,790
Isn't that why AA usually seems to hold a few FC seats until processing upgrades at the gate? If that's why AA does it, I'm fine with it, and if I were downgraded and refunded my 500-mile upgrades that I had used to upgrade a coach ticket, I would understand, admittedly unhappily, though. As long as "the rules" are clear and followed, I'm generally OK with things.