ARCHIVE: 777-200ER 3 class CIP Refit to "772": No F, New J, MCE 2014 + discussion
May 9, 2012, 10:13 am
#1
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ARCHIVE: 777-200ER 3 class CIP Refit to "772": No F, New J, MCE 2014 + discussion
772ERs will get:
-mood lighting, etc. a la 773ER
-J class bar
-F removed
-"up to 45" new J lie-flat seats with direct aisle access (presumably the same designed as the already released 773ER mock up)
-new AVOD with 15.4" screens in J; 9 inches in Y
-int'l wi-fi
-up to 45 Main Cabin Extraa seats (4-6" more legroom)
-up to 170 Main Cain seats
-AC/USB ports at every seat in all cabins
<772 related information in 772 CIP thread>
N.B. 773ERs will still get First as planned. 10 will be in service by the end of 2013.
-mood lighting, etc. a la 773ER
-J class bar
-F removed
-"up to 45" new J lie-flat seats with direct aisle access (presumably the same designed as the already released 773ER mock up)
-new AVOD with 15.4" screens in J; 9 inches in Y
-int'l wi-fi
-up to 45 Main Cabin Extraa seats (4-6" more legroom)
-up to 170 Main Cain seats
-AC/USB ports at every seat in all cabins
<772 related information in 772 CIP thread>
N.B. 773ERs will still get First as planned. 10 will be in service by the end of 2013.
MODERATOR NOTE: Please see the current thread.
777-200ER 2 class "772" refit: Now J, MCE, PEY under way
777-200ER 2 class "772" refit: Now J, MCE, PEY under way
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 6, 2017 at 11:54 pm Reason: add mod note
May 9, 2012, 10:27 am
#2
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This "up to" business on the 77E aircraft is a bit strange... Perhaps they're still playing tetris with the seating configuration on that bird? I have no reason to believe that a return to different configurations will happen, but I certainly hope it doesn't.
May 9, 2012, 10:27 am
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May 9, 2012, 10:32 am
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I like the aisle access to every J seat. It will be nice not to have to crawl over someone or have someone crawl over you when you/they need to make a night potty run. Also like the idea of a snack bar for those late night munchies.
Can't wait to see pictures.
Can't wait to see pictures.
May 9, 2012, 10:37 am
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Wow! That's excellent news! I wonder what the timeline for these refurbishments are?
May 9, 2012, 10:39 am
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Internal source does say two 772ER configurations are planned: a 30J and a 45J. Seeing a 30J working on markets like GIG and perhaps current 763 markets like BCN and MAN.
May 9, 2012, 10:40 am
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My best guess is that it will be identical to the configuration shown for the 773
I think the "up to" business has to do with how the original F will get replaced by a mini J cabin
With the slight narrowing of the nose up front, it will be an interesting struggle to fit as as many of the new J seats in the front cabin.
May 9, 2012, 10:47 am
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Good Bye F -- Bad Decision for the Brand
Just announced that only 773ERs will have a First Class product.
So 10 planes will have F cabins now. That can only mean GRU (because people pay for F) and LHR (for product consistency with BA). That's fine for GRU but it means too much capacity to LHR.
Oh, and 10 777-300ER out of 600+ mainline planes means that 2% of total and <10% of widebody fleet will have F. That means you can not advertise F because it is not cost ineffective to spend those dollars on such little capacity. And no brand halo for the rest of the airline. And a new J product that is not revolutionary. They should have gone to 6-8 F seats minimum on their widebody planes OR gotten rid of it entirely.
I just watched the video for the wide body fleet modernization. In it, they boast about turn-down service which will barely be offered now that they are removing F from most of the fleet.
AA needs some marketing people to turn it around. Part of the Delta turnaround was incorporating SONG principles across the airline in fleet upgrades, uniforms, attitude, and branding. AA will never get out of this mess until they embrace customer-first principles. This is yet another bad Finance driven move by a bad management team.
So 10 planes will have F cabins now. That can only mean GRU (because people pay for F) and LHR (for product consistency with BA). That's fine for GRU but it means too much capacity to LHR.
Oh, and 10 777-300ER out of 600+ mainline planes means that 2% of total and <10% of widebody fleet will have F. That means you can not advertise F because it is not cost ineffective to spend those dollars on such little capacity. And no brand halo for the rest of the airline. And a new J product that is not revolutionary. They should have gone to 6-8 F seats minimum on their widebody planes OR gotten rid of it entirely.
I just watched the video for the wide body fleet modernization. In it, they boast about turn-down service which will barely be offered now that they are removing F from most of the fleet.
AA needs some marketing people to turn it around. Part of the Delta turnaround was incorporating SONG principles across the airline in fleet upgrades, uniforms, attitude, and branding. AA will never get out of this mess until they embrace customer-first principles. This is yet another bad Finance driven move by a bad management team.
Last edited by NonRevKid; May 9, 2012 at 11:04 am Reason: More context
May 9, 2012, 11:03 am
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Just announced that only 773ERs will have a First Class product.
So 10 planes will have F cabins now. That can only mean GRU (because people pay for F) and LHR (for product consistency with BA). That's fine for GRU but it means too much capacity to LHR.
Oh, and 10 777-300ER out of 600+ mainline planes means that 2% of total and <10% of widebody fleet will have F. That means you can not advertise F because it is not cost ineffective to spend those dollars on such little capacity. And no brand halo for the rest of the airline. And a new J product that is not revolutionary. They should have gone to 6-8 F seats minimum on their widebody planes OR gotten rid of it entirely.
AA needs some marketing people to turn it around. Part of the Delta turnaround was incorporating SONG principles across the airline in fleet upgrades, uniforms, attitude, and branding. AA will never get out of this mess until they embrace customer-first principles. This is yet another bad Finance driven move by a bad management team.
So 10 planes will have F cabins now. That can only mean GRU (because people pay for F) and LHR (for product consistency with BA). That's fine for GRU but it means too much capacity to LHR.
Oh, and 10 777-300ER out of 600+ mainline planes means that 2% of total and <10% of widebody fleet will have F. That means you can not advertise F because it is not cost ineffective to spend those dollars on such little capacity. And no brand halo for the rest of the airline. And a new J product that is not revolutionary. They should have gone to 6-8 F seats minimum on their widebody planes OR gotten rid of it entirely.
AA needs some marketing people to turn it around. Part of the Delta turnaround was incorporating SONG principles across the airline in fleet upgrades, uniforms, attitude, and branding. AA will never get out of this mess until they embrace customer-first principles. This is yet another bad Finance driven move by a bad management team.
May 9, 2012, 11:05 am
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We've certainly had indications this was coming for some time. AA is not selling much F except on some very specific routes, so they will upgrade the Business product and eliminate First on most longhaul flights. In oneworld, IB, JL, QF etc. have made their moves already, so this merely aligns with those - and CO made the decision long before they were gobb- er, merged into UA.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
May 9, 2012, 11:07 am
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Why would the 789s get F when they are removing it from the larger 772s? I'm not doubting you but just trying to guess the logic.
At the end of the day, there aren't many markets for which AA can support F. At the end of the day, it is impossible for a US-based carrier to provide F service on par with CX, EY, EK, SQ, etc. due to unions and U.S. labor laws. LHR, GRU - definitely. Probably NRT and maybe EZE and PVG. And of course some future AA destinations. 10 planes is probably too small. But I'm not seeing how they would remove F from 47 777s to then add it to 42 789s.
At the end of the day, there aren't many markets for which AA can support F. At the end of the day, it is impossible for a US-based carrier to provide F service on par with CX, EY, EK, SQ, etc. due to unions and U.S. labor laws. LHR, GRU - definitely. Probably NRT and maybe EZE and PVG. And of course some future AA destinations. 10 planes is probably too small. But I'm not seeing how they would remove F from 47 777s to then add it to 42 789s.
May 9, 2012, 11:08 am
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May 9, 2012, 11:10 am
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We've certainly had indications this was coming for some time. AA is not selling much F except on some very specific routes, so they will upgrade the Business product and eliminate First on most longhaul flights. In oneworld, IB, JL, QF etc. have made their moves already, so this merely aligns with those - and CO made the decision long before they were gobb- er, merged into UA.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
May 9, 2012, 11:13 am
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We've certainly had indications this was coming for some time. AA is not selling much F except on some very specific routes, so they will upgrade the Business product and eliminate First on most longhaul flights. In oneworld, IB, JL, QF etc. have made their moves already, so this merely aligns with those - and CO made the decision long before they were gobb- er, merged into UA.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
I will listen attentively to the first flyer who actually pays an F class fare.
Also, the 789s (no sources on the inside for me) likely won't get F. They're replacing the 763s in all likelihood, which don't have F, and JL and NH haven't installed F in their 788s. I can't see AA going a different way.
May 9, 2012, 11:16 am
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One positive bit is that even with limited F - it likely means that the Flagship Lounges should be here to stay - though it could be the demise of the plans to open one in MIA.