2017 and the Devaluation of SWU (nee eVIP, VIPOW) Upgrades
Jan 3, 2017, 3:23 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AA LT Gold
Posts: 3,646
Well.
My EXP experience is from a few years ago, pre-bankrupcy.
Even back then, I was hardly ever able to have an SWU confirmed at time of booking.
I never used EF and I just crossed fingers all the time.
My success rate was always 100% but for one GRU-DFW flight (the days when Brazil was a premium market).
So not being able to upgrade at booking would be no news to me.
I'd be interested in hearing what is the success rate for those that are willing to be waitlisted for Y to J, instead of hearing the whining
of those spoiled ones that don't book unless confirmed. They make it sound as if getting on the waitlist equals unsuccessful upgrade.
As long as SWUs are clearing, I'd say there is absolutely no devaluation of the SWUs.
My EXP experience is from a few years ago, pre-bankrupcy.
Even back then, I was hardly ever able to have an SWU confirmed at time of booking.
I never used EF and I just crossed fingers all the time.
My success rate was always 100% but for one GRU-DFW flight (the days when Brazil was a premium market).
So not being able to upgrade at booking would be no news to me.
I'd be interested in hearing what is the success rate for those that are willing to be waitlisted for Y to J, instead of hearing the whining
of those spoiled ones that don't book unless confirmed. They make it sound as if getting on the waitlist equals unsuccessful upgrade.As long as SWUs are clearing, I'd say there is absolutely no devaluation of the SWUs.
Jan 3, 2017, 3:30 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Boston; DC
Programs: AA EXP/2mm; UA 1k;
Posts: 673
The big cost for me is that I want to use these when travelling with family. When travelling for work I am typically on paid business.
I can often be flexible over the summer with travel dates, but at day of departure it's not possible to get all four of us upgraded, since my status will only help one companion clear. (At least this is my understanding of how it works, would be a bit encouraged to hear that all four of us would have EXP status at the gate).
I can often be flexible over the summer with travel dates, but at day of departure it's not possible to get all four of us upgraded, since my status will only help one companion clear. (At least this is my understanding of how it works, would be a bit encouraged to hear that all four of us would have EXP status at the gate).
Jan 3, 2017, 4:35 pm
#33
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
I'd be interested in hearing what is the success rate for those that are willing to be waitlisted for Y to J, instead of hearing the whining of those spoiled ones that don't book unless confirmed. They make it sound as if getting on the waitlist equals unsuccessful upgrade.
As long as SWUs are clearing, I'd say there is absolutely no devaluation of the SWUs.
of those spoiled ones that don't book unless confirmed. They make it sound as if getting on the waitlist equals unsuccessful upgrade.As long as SWUs are clearing, I'd say there is absolutely no devaluation of the SWUs.
This year my SWU success rate was 67% (4/6), but 100% on domestic flights including those as part of an international flight. All except one were under 24 hours after SWU cleared and on two of them I got the last F seat after proactively calling to apply SWU and push into the last A inventory.
Majority of my flights are booked less than 10 days out.
Jan 3, 2017, 4:39 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,013
The inability to redeem SWU at booking is what makes this such a crap program. I'm not going to book a flight just so I can hope and pray something opens up at T - whenever. I wish I knew how bad it really was before I switched from UA (superior GPU redemption process).
Jan 3, 2017, 4:54 pm
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
The inability to redeem SWU at booking is what makes this such a crap program. I'm not going to book a flight just so I can hope and pray something opens up at T - whenever. I wish I knew how bad it really was before I switched from UA (superior GPU redemption process).
Jan 3, 2017, 5:42 pm
#37
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: UA
Posts: 384
Actually, this is somewhat incorrect. eVIP is still how SWU's are referred to internally at AA in their internal documentation and in SABRE/AACORN. To be specific, their exact phrasing is "Systemwide (eVIP) upgrades". The actual three letter acronym "SWU" is nowhere to be found in their systems. When I flew recently and my SWU had some issue with clearing, the agent showed me my PNR which said something like "EVIP CONFIRMED, NEED EVIP CERT DFW-HKG". Similarly, ask a gate agent about an "operational upgrade" and most will look at you funny, but when you say "cabin roll" they understand perfectly.
With that said, I have had 100% success with SWU's in 2016. Choose your flights carefully.
With that said, I have had 100% success with SWU's in 2016. Choose your flights carefully.
Jan 3, 2017, 6:48 pm
#39
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: UA
Posts: 384
Absolutely. My strategy consists of scanning the loads and seatmaps for the week, and planning accordingly. Let's take the example of flights to HKG. F is nearly always full for Saturday departures DFW-HKG, since it leaves at a reasonable hour and arrives on Sunday evening, just in time for Monday morning meetings. (Biz is usually pretty full as well, by the same logic). You can easily find the F loads through EF or any other GDS access mechanism, and also cross-reference the seatmaps (although they are sometimes misleading). My preferred alternative flight for SWU's in this case? LAX-HKG leaving just after midnight on Sundays (or Saturdays). For other parts of Asia (mainly Japan), generally flying mid-week has the lowest loads. LAX-HND has been lagging a lot, I think people will have decent upgrade success on that one. Most people want to get out of China ASAP once they're finished with their work -- PEK-ORD/DFW is usually fullest on Fridays.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Last edited by DoctorORD; Jan 3, 2017 at 6:54 pm
Jan 3, 2017, 8:28 pm
#40
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,315
Count me as someone who doesn't value them much if they don't clear at booking. Since I won't fly coach TPAC or TATL, they get used domestically when I have to fly for work. Hard to fathom people arguing the other side.
Jan 3, 2017, 8:49 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
Jan 3, 2017, 8:53 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,013
Absolutely. My strategy consists of scanning the loads and seatmaps for the week, and planning accordingly. Let's take the example of flights to HKG. F is nearly always full for Saturday departures DFW-HKG, since it leaves at a reasonable hour and arrives on Sunday evening, just in time for Monday morning meetings. (Biz is usually pretty full as well, by the same logic). You can easily find the F loads through EF or any other GDS access mechanism, and also cross-reference the seatmaps (although they are sometimes misleading). My preferred alternative flight for SWU's in this case? LAX-HKG leaving just after midnight on Sundays (or Saturdays). For other parts of Asia (mainly Japan), generally flying mid-week has the lowest loads. LAX-HND has been lagging a lot, I think people will have decent upgrade success on that one. Most people want to get out of China ASAP once they're finished with their work -- PEK-ORD/DFW is usually fullest on Fridays.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Jan 3, 2017, 8:57 pm
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Jan 3, 2017, 9:01 pm
#44
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Southern Cali
Programs: AA ExPlat, Marriott Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,022
Absolutely. My strategy consists of scanning the loads and seatmaps for the week, and planning accordingly. Let's take the example of flights to HKG. F is nearly always full for Saturday departures DFW-HKG, since it leaves at a reasonable hour and arrives on Sunday evening, just in time for Monday morning meetings. (Biz is usually pretty full as well, by the same logic). You can easily find the F loads through EF or any other GDS access mechanism, and also cross-reference the seatmaps (although they are sometimes misleading). My preferred alternative flight for SWU's in this case? LAX-HKG leaving just after midnight on Sundays (or Saturdays). For other parts of Asia (mainly Japan), generally flying mid-week has the lowest loads. LAX-HND has been lagging a lot, I think people will have decent upgrade success on that one. Most people want to get out of China ASAP once they're finished with their work -- PEK-ORD/DFW is usually fullest on Fridays.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Flying to Sydney in January and want a coach to business upgrade? Forget it - it's prime summertime there, everyone wants to go, every single day of the week. Some of the seatmaps this month for AA73 are COMPLETELY full in business class. Try March.
Auckland? Much harder, but possible during some non-standard times. A friend successfully used a SWU on the 4th of July this year. In general, 787-8's seem tougher to get the upgrade with fewer seats, so I mostly avoid them (I also hate the seats).
My preferred strategy to get to/from Aus/NZ (if I have time) is to get to Tokyo and then burn Star Alliance miles - just 60K in First Class (e.g. Thai or ANA HND-BKK -> Thai BKK-SYD) or SQ.
Do you want a guaranteed sure-fire AA SWU? JFK-GIG. I will donate $100 to charity if you don't get upgraded on that flight.
etc. etc.
Jan 4, 2017, 2:21 am
#45
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
SWU's have had this problem for some time. Though I've only missed a few, I'm actually glad AA went to 4 SWU's for EXP, so I don't have to fly AA metal so much. I used to do 4 to 5 RT's on AA China-US/YYZ RT's per year. Now, it's QR business BKK-LAX for >US$1500 when they have their sales. Much better deal, service, and mileage (and EQD) earning. Going forward, I'll do one HKG-LAX midweek RT per year on AA to burn the SWU's. GF and I are ticketed out to July 4, 2017 at 137k EQM's and 16,000 EQD's (plus the 3000 for the Aviator spend,) with only 2 AA segments-the HKG-LAX RT-so looking at awards for the rest of 2017, RTW probably one ways BKK-Europe, then on to the US, or maybe to So. Am. then the US, and then back to BKK. No sense sitting on so many AA miles either.
The little domestic flying I do can go to the lowest bidder for the best options. Did UA LAX-DEN and Frontier DEN-PBI in Dec. Wasn't so bad. We did AA back MCO-MIA-LAX and missed one UPG on the MIA-LAX 77w. I gave it to the GF, as I had exit row 31 window, which was fine. Terrible food, even though it was free, as the sandwiches really are much worse than I remember.
The little domestic flying I do can go to the lowest bidder for the best options. Did UA LAX-DEN and Frontier DEN-PBI in Dec. Wasn't so bad. We did AA back MCO-MIA-LAX and missed one UPG on the MIA-LAX 77w. I gave it to the GF, as I had exit row 31 window, which was fine. Terrible food, even though it was free, as the sandwiches really are much worse than I remember.
Last edited by rbAA; Jan 4, 2017 at 2:29 am