Whatever. This isn't about two lawyers negotiating a contract.

The OP called an agent and was told, incorrectly, that the ticket was fully refundable. I doubt this was intentional on the agent's part; rather, the fare rules and T&C are so opaque that even AA's own agents get confused trying to interpret them.

On AA's website (mobile) I have to click through 11 webpages, including entering personal information, Secure Flight info, and selecting seats, before I can see the fare rules for a round trip flight. Given that the flight is marketed as refundable, and the customer has to consciously choose it by selecting the Refundable option, the basic conditions for refund would seem to be an important piece of information that should be clearly communicated, not hidden. How would you like it if you had to wait to the very end of the checkout process to find out the fare when you select a Lowest Fare option or to find out what cabins your flights would book into when you select the First option?

The bottom line is that if the Fare Rules are important, then they should be much more easily accessible. If they're not important, then consumers can't be expected to read them.

Actually we do not know exactly what the person asked the agent

If I search for a r/t flight on the AA site, after putting in origin/destination

screen 1 - select outbound
screen 2 - select inbound
screen 3 - summary - continue as guest

Screen 4 - the fare rules are available - this is before any requirements to put in any passenger details

Where? The link under the price that says "bag and optional fees"? First, clicking on that link does not give you the fare rules, just multiple general items about fares in a table way at the bottom of a page that talks about....wait for it.....bag and optional fees! A mandatory refund fee is hardly optional so who would even click on that link in the first place? And besides, it does not have detailed fare rules based on the fare bucket you bought. Just a general discussion of all fares. That link is useless for looking at the penalty that would be assessed on a so called refundable ticket in D or I.

I don't know what other airlines are doing, but AA should be ashamed about something like this that could be so easily fixed. It really is indefensible. All one can walk away with is that there must be an intent to deceive.

If you look at the trip details, there is a link to fare rules

I hate to keep beating this point, but it is fully refundable. There however is a service charge to issue said refund. Deducting it from the refund is much more customer oriented then requiring the customer to pay it, to then be issued a refund of the full amount.

guess what you're the one agreeing to the term, not your lawyer. If you can't be bothered to read them, it's not the other parties fault when they follow them.

I still don't see it on screen 4. There is no trip details link on that page. On screen 3 (where it shows the chosen flights and asks you to sign in or continue as a guest) when you click on "details" it shows the booking code, but the booking code line is not a link. It just says I am in booking code D with no other explanation.

I really would like to be able to look at the specific booking class fare rules for the specific ticket booked before going all the way through to the pay/hold page. I appreciate your help directing me to the detailed fare rules early in the reservation process. That would be very helpful for me and probably others.

Under the price it says "Show Trip Details" - once expanded, details of all flights are displayed together with a link to the fare rules

:rolleyes:

If your point is that AA can win on semantics, great, readily conceded. If your point is that they're being customer friendly, transparent, or not in the least bit deceptive...good luck with that.

I still don't see it on mobile. Can reproduce it on desktop, though I wouldn't have realized it was there.

When you have to explain to someone who is an AA EXP member (wjj) how to find the fare rules before checkout, that should be the first clue that maybe they're not very discoverable!

I am trying to book a refundable coach ticket for MIA - SJU. I believe this is domestic. Are there any penalties associated with domestic refundable tickets? is this thread only related to international trips. I looked and cannot find any mention of penalties with my trip. The fare basis code is Y1NFFQN5

For Y1NFFQN5 , there are no penalties, so it can be cancelled with no penalty giving a full refund

Thanks. I usually do not buy refundable fares. Was confused with these posts as to whether or not there are penalties.

This does not appear to be true any longer (July 2017).

I'm comparing options for a trip and looking for fully refundable. I know about reading fare rules -- I loved when long ago Expedia had a 'search by fare rule' function -- but I'll be darned if I can find a way to get the fare rules on aa.com w/o doing the whole booking process.

I get to 'screen 4' as described in this thread, after clicking "continue as guest". There is a box with "Your Trip total" and the price.

Only links are:
1) "Price and Tax Information" -- pops up a box itemizing the fare (i.e., TSA charge, taxes). No fare rule, no links at all
2) "Baggage and Optional Fees" -- opens page to generic AA baggage / add-ons pricing. Nothing on change/cxl fees, no links to fare rules
3) and 4) TSA privacy notice and Hazzard Materials policies

Anything more and I have to enter all the info, choose seats, etc. No way to read the fare rules to decide whether I want to bother going through the entire purchase process.

On the "flight search" listing, "Details" only brings up the connection, equipment, and on-time % information, no fare rule-type info or links to the rule.

If I am missing something, I would appreciate a pointer.

For the more general debate on fairness, back on the pricing page, the info is profoundly misleading to anyone not an expert flyer. You click 'refundable', you see two economy categories, "Main flex" and "Main full flex". The details boxes for each show how they differ in terms of preferred seating and same-day changes, but nothing on refund fees -- not even calling one "fully refundable" which might at least trigger some curiousity about the other category. I'm hard pressed see how a typical consumer would have any hint that "refundable" doesn't mean what it appears to mean, given that in most purchase settings, any applicable limitations, fees, and disclaimers are presented in a manner much more directly connected in the text to the refundability claim they modify.

EDIT: Btw, going all the way to the end it appears that this 'Main flex' *is* fully refundable (M0AHZRN1), but boy AA gave me every reason to leave their site and buy elsewhere instead (eg., SW's refundable is similar price, prefer the AA schedule but wouldn't risk a big refund fee over it).

1. Is there any way to see the fare rules without making a fake booking? I remember reading, in some of the fraud threads, that even going part way into the booking system results in holding of inventory.

2. CURIOSITY - Are there *any* Refundable tickets, on AA, where the fare amount is LESS than the refund fee?