Orange shirts in PHL are out of control
Jun 16, 2016, 10:32 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay
Programs: AA ConciergeKey, Hertz PC , Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 73
If it fits...
I've has the pleasure if dealing with these clowns in orange shirts a few times. They're basically ticking off the frequent flyers. Now as another person mentioned the bags that get through are almost comically oversized. I'm not sure why but the Very Bradley "hockey equipment bags" are almost always let on without incident regardless of their size. I guess sonce they have pretty butterflies or bumblebees on them they get a free pass. Ok. Rant over!😉
Jun 17, 2016, 6:12 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,969
IMHO, when there are luggage sizing issues when the situation is clear that your bag is an eligible carry on, the best way to address this is to ask them to explain why your carry on is "too big" then head back to the airline counter and clarify with them whether your bag is ok per the airline's carry on policy. If it is, ask an agent to escort you back to the guard to resolve the differing viewpoint (airline will be right 99% of the time) and I am confident the guard will let you through.
Last thing any guard wants to find themselves being in the hot seat after their boss gets in trouble with a senior manager, particularly at a hub like Philly where the manager of the hub have considerably more political reach (I think the manager of a hub at AA are usually Managing Director level) unlike other airports where the top dog is usually a station manager or low-mid level manager.
Last thing any guard wants to find themselves being in the hot seat after their boss gets in trouble with a senior manager, particularly at a hub like Philly where the manager of the hub have considerably more political reach (I think the manager of a hub at AA are usually Managing Director level) unlike other airports where the top dog is usually a station manager or low-mid level manager.
Jun 17, 2016, 11:08 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
My issue is simple:
Nobody has the right to stop me and prevent me from moving in the public area of an airport based on the rules of an air carrier which only apply once I arrive at a private gate or aircraft.
The airport my 'authorize' these people; the airline may wish to have bags stopped before they reach the gate, but the question is 'do they have the legal right?'
I do not believe this matter has been settled nor addressed.
This is not an issue of 'can I take on oversized bags'....the question is "can you stop my free access to public space for ANY reason?' Must I show someone other than a TSA agent my 'documents' prior to entering a TSA controlled area?
(just because an airport authorizes a third party 'security' firm to ask to see your documents does not mean this is a legal requirement. In fact it may be entirely based on a legal opinion that says 'we can ask for voluntary compliance, but we have no legal authority" to which all involved say "OK, we can live with that- lets go forward with this program")
I agree you should not take oversized bags onto the plane. I agree the airline has a business reason to prevent this. All true. Neither of these things give anyone the right to stop and question you prior to arrival at a private airline space.
If anyone can cite legal references, that would be interesting
Golfingboys advice is fine if you have 30 minutes to hours to wait for an AA station manager to show up.... I once went back and forth twice between security and AA ticket counter- finally I demanded the agent walk with me, I suspect the only reason they did so is that I was CK at the time.
Nobody has the right to stop me and prevent me from moving in the public area of an airport based on the rules of an air carrier which only apply once I arrive at a private gate or aircraft.
The airport my 'authorize' these people; the airline may wish to have bags stopped before they reach the gate, but the question is 'do they have the legal right?'
I do not believe this matter has been settled nor addressed.
This is not an issue of 'can I take on oversized bags'....the question is "can you stop my free access to public space for ANY reason?' Must I show someone other than a TSA agent my 'documents' prior to entering a TSA controlled area?
(just because an airport authorizes a third party 'security' firm to ask to see your documents does not mean this is a legal requirement. In fact it may be entirely based on a legal opinion that says 'we can ask for voluntary compliance, but we have no legal authority" to which all involved say "OK, we can live with that- lets go forward with this program")
I agree you should not take oversized bags onto the plane. I agree the airline has a business reason to prevent this. All true. Neither of these things give anyone the right to stop and question you prior to arrival at a private airline space.
If anyone can cite legal references, that would be interesting
Golfingboys advice is fine if you have 30 minutes to hours to wait for an AA station manager to show up.... I once went back and forth twice between security and AA ticket counter- finally I demanded the agent walk with me, I suspect the only reason they did so is that I was CK at the time.
Jun 17, 2016, 11:33 am
#34
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Trenton, NJ (PHL, EWR)
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Bronze
Posts: 1,633
I generally don't check in or enter on the ground level at PHL (though it's one of my home airports), but in the future I'm just going to switch into Russian and act like I have no idea what saying, then accuse them of theft when they try to grab my bag, and call for the police in broken English.
J/k, I don't have the guts for that. But I am of the opinion that the bottom of the escalator, and by contract employees without a mandate clear to passengers, is not the way to go about addressing this problem.
J/k, I don't have the guts for that. But I am of the opinion that the bottom of the escalator, and by contract employees without a mandate clear to passengers, is not the way to go about addressing this problem.
Jun 17, 2016, 3:13 pm
#36
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: san clemente ca
Programs: AA,DL
Posts: 374
Jun 18, 2016, 10:22 am
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: DFW
Programs: OWE AA EXP;*A TK Gold; Marriott LTT; Hyatt Globalist; IHG Plat; National VIP
Posts: 3,097
Going on semi vacation on Tuesday and want to avoid unnecessary stress and unpleasantness of the Orange shirt brigade, will try PreCheck at concourse D where Delta and United fly from. Since the thuggish things in orange shirts are hired by AA it can be presumed that concourse D entrance wouldn't have them.
It's insane that PHL based AA loyal customer has to come up with schemes to get to the airport without harassment by the goons on power trips that AA hires and who particularly pick out frequent flyers from the crows to abuse, as evidenced by myself and several in the thread.
It's insane that PHL based AA loyal customer has to come up with schemes to get to the airport without harassment by the goons on power trips that AA hires and who particularly pick out frequent flyers from the crows to abuse, as evidenced by myself and several in the thread.
Jun 19, 2016, 7:23 am
#38
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
A very close female friend, 1/2 Japanese, 1/2 Filipino, who commutes weekly in and out of PHL on AA, has noted this problem.
(her quote)"I have never been bothered, but it seems that when they (the orange shirts), get overly officious, which seems to be all the time, the target is almost invariably, caucasian."
This is merely an observation.
(her quote)"I have never been bothered, but it seems that when they (the orange shirts), get overly officious, which seems to be all the time, the target is almost invariably, caucasian."
This is merely an observation.
Jun 20, 2016, 2:21 pm
#42
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 19
I usually check my bag anyways, but the person sitting at the podium near priority check in in Terminal B yelling at everyone who comes by is getting a tad annoying. Yes, i'm Platinum, please stop shouting. And who is that going to catch? It's not like they are checking anything to ensure I'm who I say I am.
Jun 20, 2016, 4:55 pm
#43
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 47
Going on semi vacation on Tuesday and want to avoid unnecessary stress and unpleasantness of the Orange shirt brigade, will try PreCheck at concourse D where Delta and United fly from. Since the thuggish things in orange shirts are hired by AA it can be presumed that concourse D entrance wouldn't have them.
It's insane that PHL based AA loyal customer has to come up with schemes to get to the airport without harassment by the goons on power trips that AA hires and who particularly pick out frequent flyers from the crows to abuse, as evidenced by myself and several in the thread.
It's insane that PHL based AA loyal customer has to come up with schemes to get to the airport without harassment by the goons on power trips that AA hires and who particularly pick out frequent flyers from the crows to abuse, as evidenced by myself and several in the thread.
Jun 20, 2016, 5:48 pm
#44
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PHL/EWR
Programs: AA MM; UA-S; HH-D; Marriott-LTP
Posts: 223
Same here. PHL is my primary airport (once or twice a month) and earlier this month was the first time I had an issue with my spinner (bag itself is 21 in but with wheels it does measure at just over 22 inches in height); same bag I've used on a voluminous amount of flights over the past few years. Same bag that fits effortlessly in the overhead space.
Was in line for terminal B pre-check when my bag was snatched out of my hands to measure, deeming it too big and had to be checked. I thought at first she meant too wide, maybe thinking it was expanded, which I knew it wasn't and was prepared to remove stuff out of it just to help, but that wasn't the issue she snapped, it was too tall (she measured it wheels down, never measured sideways). It's been placed in the sizer before with no issues, but not this time. She wouldn't let me proceed. I was very confused and embarrassed by the tone she took with me, and pretty annoyed quite frankly when she physically took my bag out of my hands to wheel it over the the sizer. I did go out and purchase a slightly smaller bag, just to avoid the harassment.
I asked my bro about this (he's PHL TSA), and he says they hear a lot of complaints about this contracting entity; unfortunately for TSA, it's the airlines, not TSA, who dictate and enforce bag size. This is a complaint TSA can't address even if they could or wanted to (they have enough problems, let's face it).
This contracting entity is way too aggressive and downright rude. AA should take notice, if their reputation is of any concern.
Was in line for terminal B pre-check when my bag was snatched out of my hands to measure, deeming it too big and had to be checked. I thought at first she meant too wide, maybe thinking it was expanded, which I knew it wasn't and was prepared to remove stuff out of it just to help, but that wasn't the issue she snapped, it was too tall (she measured it wheels down, never measured sideways). It's been placed in the sizer before with no issues, but not this time. She wouldn't let me proceed. I was very confused and embarrassed by the tone she took with me, and pretty annoyed quite frankly when she physically took my bag out of my hands to wheel it over the the sizer. I did go out and purchase a slightly smaller bag, just to avoid the harassment.
I asked my bro about this (he's PHL TSA), and he says they hear a lot of complaints about this contracting entity; unfortunately for TSA, it's the airlines, not TSA, who dictate and enforce bag size. This is a complaint TSA can't address even if they could or wanted to (they have enough problems, let's face it).
This contracting entity is way too aggressive and downright rude. AA should take notice, if their reputation is of any concern.
Jun 20, 2016, 5:48 pm
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: DFW
Programs: OWE AA EXP;*A TK Gold; Marriott LTT; Hyatt Globalist; IHG Plat; National VIP
Posts: 3,097
A very close female friend, 1/2 Japanese, 1/2 Filipino, who commutes weekly in and out of PHL on AA, has noted this problem.
(her quote)"I have never been bothered, but it seems that when they (the orange shirts), get overly officious, which seems to be all the time, the target is almost invariably, caucasian."
This is merely an observation.
(her quote)"I have never been bothered, but it seems that when they (the orange shirts), get overly officious, which seems to be all the time, the target is almost invariably, caucasian."
This is merely an observation.