View Poll Results: The AAdvantage changes announced 6 Jun 2016 will
incentivize me to fly AA more, as I benefit overall
27
3.55%
cause me to buy premium over discount AA fares
26
3.42%
not impact my travel on AA in the balance
128
16.82%
make me choose AA or a competitor, depending on itinerary
181
23.78%
make me become an independent agent
221
29.04%
cause me to join another airline's FF program
178
23.39%
Voters: 761. You may not vote on this poll
Jun 6, 2016, 10:31 am
Last edit by: JDiver
AAdvantage Changes Announced 6 Jun 2016 - REACTION, DISCUSSION
This thread is dedicated to "REACTION, DISCUSSION" of the changes announced June 6, 2016.
For "JUST THE FACTS", please use JUST THE FACTS: EQD, status tier, upgrade changes as of 6 Jun 2016
Link to AAdvantage Program Updates page on aa.com.
Link to Gary Leff's "View from the Wing" blog article on these changes.
Link to Ben "Lucky" Schlappig's take in "One Mile at a Time" on View From the Boarding Area
Summary of changes:
aa.com: Unknown but intended: aa.com updated to show EQM, EQD and RDM/AW for your convenience when booking and in your account for keeping informed about your accruals.
Change to earning Award / Redeemable Miles to revenue based begins (see FT thread)
Bonus award miles "More Miles" for premium cabin discontinued
For travel beginning August 1, 2016
Earn award miles based on your ticket price and elite status on American-marketed flights.
You earn miles on the base fare plus carrier-imposed fees minus government-imposed taxes and fees. The more you spend (and the higher your elite status level) the more you’ll earn.
On most flights marketed by partner airlines, you'll earn award miles based on a percentage of the flight distance and the fare class of your ticket. Rates will be available by July 15.
NOTE: this also pertains to "special fares", such as those purchased through AA Vacations. (not AA language)
You earn miles on the base fare plus carrier-imposed fees minus government-imposed taxes and fees. The more you spend (and the higher your elite status level) the more you’ll earn.
- AAdvantage® member – 5 miles for every U.S. dollar
- Gold member – 7 miles for every U.S. dollar (40% bonus)
- Platinum member – 8 miles for every U.S. dollar (60% bonus)
- Platinum Pro - 9 miles for every U.S. dollar
- Executive Platinum member – 11 miles for every U.S. dollar (120% bonus)
NOTE: this also pertains to "special fares", such as those purchased through AA Vacations. (not AA language)
1 Jan 2017:
Status earning to have EQM/EQS criteria AND "EQD" revenue spend requirement
In addition to the (same as 2016) required EQM or EQS, to earn status one will have to also earn "Elite Qualifying Dollars" / "EQD" spend credit as follows (during the calendar year):
"EQDs will be awarded based on:
Ticket price (base fare plus carrier-imposed fees, excluding any government-imposed taxes and fees) on American-marketed flights
EQD calculations will not include change fees and similar (premium seats, baggage, etc.) charges.
Flights marketed by oneworld® carriers and Alaska Airlines will earn EQDs based on a percentage of the flight distance and the fare class purchased (as may "special fares" - not AA language)
NOTE: EQD offset may be earned by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red and Silver cards (added language not from AA)
With the addition of EQDs, we’ll remove the rule that 4 segments must be traveled on American or American Eagle during the qualifying year to receive elite status."
Ticket price (base fare plus carrier-imposed fees, excluding any government-imposed taxes and fees) on American-marketed flights
EQD calculations will not include change fees and similar (premium seats, baggage, etc.) charges.
Q. Do checked bag fees, seat purchases, 500-mile upgrades or other products/service fees count toward earning award miles and EQDs?
No, only the base fare paid for your ticket including any carrier-imposed fees will count toward earning award miles and EQDs. Fees for other products or services will not be awarded miles or EQDs, including but not limited to the following: checked baggage fees, Admirals Club® memberships, Wi-Fi passes, in-flight food and beverage purchases, in-flight entertainment, unaccompanied minor fees, pet travel fees, 500-mile upgrades, mileage upgrade cash co-payments, Mileage Multiplier, BuyMiles, GiftMiles, ShareMiles or other mileage purchases, ticket change fees, ticketing fees, same-day confirmed flight change or standby fees and service charges. (Thanks to ty97.)
No, only the base fare paid for your ticket including any carrier-imposed fees will count toward earning award miles and EQDs. Fees for other products or services will not be awarded miles or EQDs, including but not limited to the following: checked baggage fees, Admirals Club® memberships, Wi-Fi passes, in-flight food and beverage purchases, in-flight entertainment, unaccompanied minor fees, pet travel fees, 500-mile upgrades, mileage upgrade cash co-payments, Mileage Multiplier, BuyMiles, GiftMiles, ShareMiles or other mileage purchases, ticket change fees, ticketing fees, same-day confirmed flight change or standby fees and service charges. (Thanks to ty97.)
NOTE: EQD offset may be earned by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red and Silver cards (added language not from AA)
With the addition of EQDs, we’ll remove the rule that 4 segments must be traveled on American or American Eagle during the qualifying year to receive elite status."
- Gold - $3,000
- Platinum - $6,000
- Platinum Pro - $9,000 (beginning 1/1/17)
- Executive Platinum - $12,000
NOTE: Concierge Key is treated as a higher status tier than Executive Platinum for upgrade Priority, but is not otherwise an AAdvantage status tier.
Change from three status tiers to four - new 75K "Platinum Pro" added
"In 2017 you can start earning toward a new level, Platinum Pro, with benefits like:
- Complimentary upgrades on flights in 500-mile upgrade markets
- Earn 9 award miles/U.S. dollar (80% bonus)
- 2 free checked bags
- oneworld® Sapphire status
- 72 hour upgrade window
February 2017
Introduction of highly restricted AA Basic Economy fares. FT link.
These will accrue 0.5 EQM, 0.5 EQS, will not permit rollaboard size / overhead baggage (only one personal item) unless you have status, no upgrades permitted, etc.
"Late" 2017:
Change to upgrade priority to EQD-based priority
"The way your upgrade request is prioritized will change later in 2017. You’ll be listed according to your elite status level followed by the number of EQDs earned in the last 12 months."
Executive Platinums able to upgrade MC / coach award flight (On flights 500 mile upgrades are usable, courtesy upgrades; priority within EP by last 12 month EQD spend).
"Starting later in 2017, Executive Platinum members can use their complimentary 500-mile upgrade benefits on AAdvantage® award tickets for travel on American from Main Cabin to the next class."
Peripheral issues:
AA Vacations: AA Vacations packages (like partner airline tickets) will earn EQD, EQM, and RDM/AW based on the distance flown as determined by the fare class purchased. This is in accordance with the "Special Fares" section of the new EQD earnings pages, and confirmed here
EQD requirements will apply to non-US residents as well as US as currently exists
EQD requirements can be partially offset by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red or Silver cards.
Partners (AS and oneworld): accrual of EQM as reflected on charts on aa.com; EQD credit to be announced (15 Jul 2016)
Status: AA has no current plans to add "Lifetime Platinum Pro" status.
Resources:
GLOSSARY:
EQD: Elite Qualifying Dollars (base fare + carrier imposed fees, - government imposed taxes and fees)
EQM: Elite Qualifying Miles (accrual depends on fare basis, airline and miles flown)
EQS: Elite Qualifying Segments (discrete qualifying segment credited by AA)
Platinum Pro: new tier beginning 1/1/17 requiring $9,000 EQD and 75,000 EQM or 90 EQS in one calendar year
For links to new threads about these and other recent changes affecting AA flyers, see below.
Link to AAdvantage Program Updates page on aa.com.
Link to Gary Leff's "View from the Wing" blog article on these changes.
Link to Ben "Lucky" Schlappig's take in "One Mile at a Time" on View From the Boarding Area
Link to Andy's take on the Award Miles earning changes on View From the Boarding Area.
Links to useful threads:
GUIDE: Earning EQD / Elite Qualifying Dollars on AA and partner airlines (2017 on)
GUIDE: Earning AA Elite Qualifying Miles / EQM on AA, oneworld, partner airlines 2017
GUIDE: Earning AA Award / Redeemable Miles / RDM on AA, partners 1 Aug 2016
HELP DESK: Elite Qualifying EQD, EQM & Award / RDM Calculations & Planning 2017
AAdvantage® earning estimates - FAQ (aa.com)
(aa.com "AAdvantage program updates" - link)
Link to FT thread: What are AA Platinum Pro Benefits? Are they worth it? (master thread)
Link to FT thread: oneworld not requiring connecting protection or interline baggage 1 Jun 2016
Link to ARCHIVE: "Speculation about upcoming changes tba 6 Jun 2016"
Updated 6 Jan 2012 - JDiver
REACTION, DISCUSSION: EQD, status tier, upgrade changes as of 6 Jun 2016
Jun 9, 2016, 2:20 pm
#826
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kirkland, WA
Programs: AS 75K,UA Gold 1.6MM, Hilton Dia, Marriott LT Plat, Hyatt Glb, Natl Exec, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Sapguy
Over at UA, we had the same indignation and ranting by over-entitled elites who have had it good for too long (many even bragged that they requalified for 1K for $1,200 since it's a mileage based program).
We also used to get $200 vouchers whenever we found anything broken, like a light or audio plug. CFO declared us "over-entitled" and that was the beginning of the end of that...
Jun 9, 2016, 2:20 pm
#827
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Are they?
Revenue-based FF programs have an incredibly obvious goal, and it's to put a price floor on elite status in order to kill the practice of picking up high-tier status at low cost through cheap mileage/segment runs. The airlines are saying loud and clear that status costs at least this many dollars, no less.
And really the language you used here is telling: FTers who hunt for the best/cheapest MRs and all pile into a deep-discount plane to ANC or do insane multi-segment hops... aren't the airlines' "best customers", by a long shot. Given the margin on flights and the cost of the higher-tier perks, the average FT-reading mileage-optimizing AA EXP probably is a net financial loss for the airline, and AA won't shed any tears about seeing a bunch of them fall to lower tiers or out of status entirely.
Revenue-based FF programs have an incredibly obvious goal, and it's to put a price floor on elite status in order to kill the practice of picking up high-tier status at low cost through cheap mileage/segment runs. The airlines are saying loud and clear that status costs at least this many dollars, no less.
And really the language you used here is telling: FTers who hunt for the best/cheapest MRs and all pile into a deep-discount plane to ANC or do insane multi-segment hops... aren't the airlines' "best customers", by a long shot. Given the margin on flights and the cost of the higher-tier perks, the average FT-reading mileage-optimizing AA EXP probably is a net financial loss for the airline, and AA won't shed any tears about seeing a bunch of them fall to lower tiers or out of status entirely.
Jun 9, 2016, 2:50 pm
#828
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: WFBF
Posts: 963
You want to read this followup: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26754332-post822.html
Jun 9, 2016, 2:52 pm
#829
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
I've been thinking a lot of how I'm actually going to evaluate the decision. I'm thinking I'm going to be making some sort of spreadsheet comparing my options' elite level perks, qualification requirements, network and so forth so I at least have a sound methodology for my decision. I'm still thinking about how I'll compare what's important to me. I'm thinking some sort of point value assigned to each one, but easily modifiable as everyone values perks differently.
I'm not sure when I'll have it done, but if you want, I'll be willing to share it.
I'm not sure when I'll have it done, but if you want, I'll be willing to share it.
I would be interested in this as well. I've made modifications for my AA tracking sheet to include a column for EQD, but I will be able to tweak it more once the partner earning figures are out in July. But that will just look at the implications of AA and various partners on AA status. Yours is a different, and very interesting, dimension for decision-making.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I've kind of used your idea Superguy and have come up with a "guesstimate" as to which direction I'm going in. This is a bit of a preliminary "guesstimate" so I do have more work to do.
This is what I've come up with:
AS = Would really like to go with AS however I'm not so sure how things are going to work out especially given the VX merger/acquisition (FF-revenue based or current methodology?, routes, etc.). Currently, AS still doesn't fly direct routes which I need (Bay Area to ORD/JFK/MIA). Will there be potential changes (drastic) to the FF program in a couple of years?
Pros: Excellent FF program and have a lot of airline partners. Not too difficult to get status such as MVP Gold. I've had fantastic service with them too.
AA = I don't want to spend north of $6,000 (which would be when subtracting govt. taxes and fees) just to get Platinum, unless*.
Pros: LT 1.2+ million miles. Suits my OneWorld needs (miles redemption, lounges, status, etc.). Flies direct to where I need to go (domestic).
UA = I'm really a OneWorld guy as it suits my needs better and I've heard "the grass isn't all green" at UA either (which is of course subjective)-
Pros: UA CC removes PQD for the 1st 3 tiers and they have a subscription Y+ which is nice. They fly out of SFO which would suit my travels needs, especially domestic.
BA = Fuel surcharge, especially for mileage redemption is horrible. Obviously doesn't suit my domestic needs.
Pros: Though Avios isn't what it once was its still not bad. If I have status with BA/OneWorld then I guess it won't be too bad flying on AA (at least so far when it comes to getting a decent seat, even in Y/MCE, etc.).I can get AA lounges on domestic flights as well. As I mentioned previously, its not too difficult in terms of cost and travel getting BA Silver which is basically equivalent to current AA Platinum/OneWorld Saphire.
*-The major unknown for me (of course there are others) is of a potential CC PQD with AA.
And really the language you used here is telling: FTers who hunt for the best/cheapest MRs and all pile into a deep-discount plane to ANC or do insane multi-segment hops... aren't the airlines' "best customers", by a long shot. Given the margin on flights and the cost of the higher-tier perks, the average FT-reading mileage-optimizing AA EXP probably is a net financial loss for the airline, and AA won't shed any tears about seeing a bunch of them fall to lower tiers or out of status entirely.
Rather than gutting the once highly-praised/regarded AAdvantage Program, IMHO AA could've have "tweaked" the system a bit more (such as making it harder to upgrade, etc.) but not have been so drastic (of course, "drastic" is quite subjective).
For example, the "Miles + Copay" for international travel while earning miles only in the originally ticketed fare was an excellent idea (not one created by Parker/Kirby). Something as such for domestic flights (regardless of status) might have been a way to go. Maybe cash or cash + 500 mile upgrades.
Maybe devaluation of CC miles rather than BIS miles (not that it would go well with CC companies
). I simply haven't seen any originality (sans one or two mentioned here on this thread) by Parker & Kirby.
Jun 9, 2016, 2:56 pm
#830
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA MM, AA MM, IC Plat Amb, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 3,146
The EQD will prove some pain, because ironically I am now finding extremely cheap fares on AA in 2017. I am almost at 90-100k eqms and only 3.5k eqds, it seems I will have to reach 200keqms to meet the minimum spent in 2017, which is nuts, I don't want to fly that much, the hotel costs are killing me...
Going forward, this amount qualifies me for only AA Gold status, which (as an AA MM) I'd have anyway.The solution here is not to fly 200,000 miles, but rather the 100,000 you've been flying and then make some big ticket purchases that bring you up to $12,000 pretax. I've been flying 100K a year on UA or AA for the last 20+ years. Just not going to happen in 2017 as I won't spend $12,000 for leisure flying.
I know two top tier UA flyers, both 100% leisure flyers, and they meet the $12,000 spend over there by purchasing more expensive international economy tickets. UA makes it a little easier as you need those kinds of tickets to upgrade with systemwides, so at least they have a little incentive. At AA you'd just be throwing the money at them to hit the spending minimum.
I know two top tier UA flyers, both 100% leisure flyers, and they meet the $12,000 spend over there by purchasing more expensive international economy tickets. UA makes it a little easier as you need those kinds of tickets to upgrade with systemwides, so at least they have a little incentive. At AA you'd just be throwing the money at them to hit the spending minimum.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:03 pm
#831
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Conversely, if they demand at least $12k a year yet gut benefits like cutting eVIPs in half, cut mileage earning like they have already, and then later decide to gut more for 2018 - say you'll only get 2 bags in instead of 3, eVIPs are earned at 1 for every 25k EQMs you fly and only valid on L fares and above, and they take away award redeposit waivers because those pesky EXPs abused the privilege. They also decide earning 11 RDMS per dollar is too generous, and cut it to 10 (which you'll see why in a second). Oh, and $12k is no longer enough - you need to spend at least $15k.
On top of that, AA decides to do something innovative: they become the first program to officially have 5 elite tiers (not like the shadow GS and DL 360 programs). They officially decide to make CK an official tier requiring 150k in miles and an undisclosed revenue required - assumed to be at least double that of EXP - and flown only on Y fares and above. In return they'll give you 2 more eVIPS, and 2 companion eVIPs that can only be used with a companion flying with you. Don't have a companion? Oh well - it's a meaningless benefit. You also get your 3rd check bag back and we'll let you upgrade your companion domestically without having to buy stickers anymore. As an added bonus, you'll earn an additional eVIP for every 25k miles you fly.
Then across the board, redemption values go up on AA metal by at least 5k miles each way, and if you decide to use OW partners and fly in a premium cabin, there's a 50% mileage surcharge because their product is so much better than AA's.
For in cabin service, only water, coffee and tea will be provided for free in F. Meals are only served on transcons because anyone can last a few hours without eating. In case you do get hungry, you can buy a snack for $10. In F, you can have soda and juice for free. Booze will be sold at a discount compared to Y offerings. EXPs will get 20 alcoholic drink chits per year, with 5 more earned with each additional eVIP. CK will continue to drink for free.
In the AC, you now either have to use drink chits or pay for booze again because people were abusing the free well liquor offerings they had. If you fly enough, maybe you can earn an AC drink pass that gets you 2 drinks for free each visit. Otherwise, the $400-500 per year for a membership just wasn't covering their costs.
Oh, and btw, they just had their best year EVER when it comes to profits.
That may sound far fetched, but it's pretty much what happened over the last 5 years or so.
Now in any of those circumstances, tell me why it would behoove anyone to remain loyal to AA? AA would certainly be within their right to make changes like that. After all, they want to reward their best customers with the value they bring to the table. If you can't bring that much, well, you can just pound sand. It's not worth it to them. They don't want to throw good money after bad and reward customers who can only spend 12k a year.
And of course, these changes are pitched as being enhancements to a great program that will deliver even more value to their best customers.
So suppose all that happened. Would you cheerfully accept the changes, or would you decide that remaining loyal isn't worth it anymore? And if it's the latter, would you continue to throw good money at a company that places so little value on what you bring to the table? Or that wants more and gives you less at the tier you've maintained for years, and then tells you if you want what you had before (or close to it), fly more and pay up? Would you continue remain loyal and park your butt on their flights - even if something better was offered elsewhere?
If you would, you're more laid back than me.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:06 pm
#832
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
The spend qualification effectively neutralizes the cost to the company. They should not have to also reduce benefits.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:12 pm
#833
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
You want to read this followup: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26754332-post822.html
Qualifying really wasn't any easier this year unless you bought premium tickets. The cheap people were still qualifying on miles instead of EQPs anyway. The only way it got easier is if you bought Y/B or above. And from what you're saying, that's exactly what they wanted to do - give a greater incentive for people to spend MORE money and reward their BEST customers who DID SPEND more. Right? Or is making it easier for those pax throwing good money after bad?
Just who is a good customer in your book? The high spender, or the consistent flyer? If the former, I suggest you try operating a premium only airline and see how well it works. If there are as many whales out there as you seem to think, you should make money hand over fist. Perhaps you can make money where so many other companies that tried that failed.
And if the best is the high spender that flies consistently - yes those are the pie in the sky people that everyone wants. However, there are even fewer of those, and they're going to fly much better options than any of the big US3 can provide whenever possible. And they won't give a damn about the FFP either. So those rewards will mean little.
Even with FT, I still don't think there are as many elite mooches as you make it out to be.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:37 pm
#834
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
*Everyone should read this* ...because I think this post is almost prophetic for what is very likely to come down the pipe in the future. I can see almost all of this happening in the coming years... which is why the decision to become a free agent, or to move to another FFP has to be taken seriously.
It's a brave new world for the frequent flier. 2016 marks the last year of a truly generous airline loyalty program.
It's a brave new world for the frequent flier. 2016 marks the last year of a truly generous airline loyalty program.
Let's take a look at the flip side of this equation.
Conversely, if they demand at least $12k a year yet gut benefits like cutting eVIPs in half, cut mileage earning like they have already, and then later decide to gut more for 2018 - say you'll only get 2 bags in instead of 3, eVIPs are earned at 1 for every 25k EQMs you fly and only valid on L fares and above, and they take away award redeposit waivers because those pesky EXPs abused the privilege. They also decide earning 11 RDMS per dollar is too generous, and cut it to 10 (which you'll see why in a second). Oh, and $12k is no longer enough - you need to spend at least $15k.
On top of that, AA decides to do something innovative: they become the first program to officially have 5 elite tiers (not like the shadow GS and DL 360 programs). They officially decide to make CK an official tier requiring 150k in miles and an undisclosed revenue required - assumed to be at least double that of EXP - and flown only on Y fares and above. In return they'll give you 2 more eVIPS, and 2 companion eVIPs that can only be used with a companion flying with you. Don't have a companion? Oh well - it's a meaningless benefit. You also get your 3rd check bag back and we'll let you upgrade your companion domestically without having to buy stickers anymore. As an added bonus, you'll earn an additional eVIP for every 25k miles you fly.
Then across the board, redemption values go up on AA metal by at least 5k miles each way, and if you decide to use OW partners and fly in a premium cabin, there's a 50% mileage surcharge because their product is so much better than AA's.
For in cabin service, only water, coffee and tea will be provided for free in F. Meals are only served on transcons because anyone can last a few hours without eating. In case you do get hungry, you can buy a snack for $10. In F, you can have soda and juice for free. Booze will be sold at a discount compared to Y offerings. EXPs will get 20 alcoholic drink chits per year, with 5 more earned with each additional eVIP. CK will continue to drink for free.
In the AC, you now either have to use drink chits or pay for booze again because people were abusing the free well liquor offerings they had. If you fly enough, maybe you can earn an AC drink pass that gets you 2 drinks for free each visit. Otherwise, the $400-500 per year for a membership just wasn't covering their costs.
Oh, and btw, they just had their best year EVER when it comes to profits.
That may sound far fetched, but it's pretty much what happened over the last 5 years or so.
Now in any of those circumstances, tell me why it would behoove anyone to remain loyal to AA? AA would certainly be within their right to make changes like that. After all, they want to reward their best customers with the value they bring to the table. If you can't bring that much, well, you can just pound sand. It's not worth it to them. They don't want to throw good money after bad and reward customers who can only spend 12k a year.
And of course, these changes are pitched as being enhancements to a great program that will deliver even more value to their best customers.
So suppose all that happened. Would you cheerfully accept the changes, or would you decide that remaining loyal isn't worth it anymore? And if it's the latter, would you continue to throw good money at a company that places so little value on what you bring to the table? Or that wants more and gives you less at the tier you've maintained for years, and then tells you if you want what you had before (or close to it), fly more and pay up? Would you continue remain loyal and park your butt on their flights - even if something better was offered elsewhere?
If you would, you're more laid back than me.
Conversely, if they demand at least $12k a year yet gut benefits like cutting eVIPs in half, cut mileage earning like they have already, and then later decide to gut more for 2018 - say you'll only get 2 bags in instead of 3, eVIPs are earned at 1 for every 25k EQMs you fly and only valid on L fares and above, and they take away award redeposit waivers because those pesky EXPs abused the privilege. They also decide earning 11 RDMS per dollar is too generous, and cut it to 10 (which you'll see why in a second). Oh, and $12k is no longer enough - you need to spend at least $15k.
On top of that, AA decides to do something innovative: they become the first program to officially have 5 elite tiers (not like the shadow GS and DL 360 programs). They officially decide to make CK an official tier requiring 150k in miles and an undisclosed revenue required - assumed to be at least double that of EXP - and flown only on Y fares and above. In return they'll give you 2 more eVIPS, and 2 companion eVIPs that can only be used with a companion flying with you. Don't have a companion? Oh well - it's a meaningless benefit. You also get your 3rd check bag back and we'll let you upgrade your companion domestically without having to buy stickers anymore. As an added bonus, you'll earn an additional eVIP for every 25k miles you fly.
Then across the board, redemption values go up on AA metal by at least 5k miles each way, and if you decide to use OW partners and fly in a premium cabin, there's a 50% mileage surcharge because their product is so much better than AA's.
For in cabin service, only water, coffee and tea will be provided for free in F. Meals are only served on transcons because anyone can last a few hours without eating. In case you do get hungry, you can buy a snack for $10. In F, you can have soda and juice for free. Booze will be sold at a discount compared to Y offerings. EXPs will get 20 alcoholic drink chits per year, with 5 more earned with each additional eVIP. CK will continue to drink for free.
In the AC, you now either have to use drink chits or pay for booze again because people were abusing the free well liquor offerings they had. If you fly enough, maybe you can earn an AC drink pass that gets you 2 drinks for free each visit. Otherwise, the $400-500 per year for a membership just wasn't covering their costs.
Oh, and btw, they just had their best year EVER when it comes to profits.
That may sound far fetched, but it's pretty much what happened over the last 5 years or so.
Now in any of those circumstances, tell me why it would behoove anyone to remain loyal to AA? AA would certainly be within their right to make changes like that. After all, they want to reward their best customers with the value they bring to the table. If you can't bring that much, well, you can just pound sand. It's not worth it to them. They don't want to throw good money after bad and reward customers who can only spend 12k a year.
And of course, these changes are pitched as being enhancements to a great program that will deliver even more value to their best customers.
So suppose all that happened. Would you cheerfully accept the changes, or would you decide that remaining loyal isn't worth it anymore? And if it's the latter, would you continue to throw good money at a company that places so little value on what you bring to the table? Or that wants more and gives you less at the tier you've maintained for years, and then tells you if you want what you had before (or close to it), fly more and pay up? Would you continue remain loyal and park your butt on their flights - even if something better was offered elsewhere?
If you would, you're more laid back than me.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:49 pm
#835
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
*Everyone should read this* ...because I think this post is almost prophetic for what is very likely to come down the pipe in the future. I can see almost all of this happening in the coming years... which is why the decision to become a free agent, or to move to another FFP has to be taken seriously.
Now that things have actually changed, I'll re-evaluate. But I don't see any point in basing decisions on speculation about the future.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:49 pm
#836
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: AA 1MM, Hyatt GP Platinum, *wood Gold
Posts: 173
I have to admit its a great idea!^
I've kind of used your idea Superguy and have come up with a "guesstimate" as to which direction I'm going in. This is a bit of a preliminary "guesstimate" so I do have more work to do.
This is what I've come up with:
AS = Would really like to go with AS however I'm not so sure how things are going to work out especially given the VX merger/acquisition (FF-revenue based or current methodology?, routes, etc.). Currently, AS still doesn't fly direct routes which I need (Bay Area to ORD/JFK/MIA). Will there be potential changes (drastic) to the FF program in a couple of years?
Pros: Excellent FF program and have a lot of airline partners. Not too difficult to get status such as MVP Gold. I've had fantastic service with them too.
AA = I don't want to spend north of $6,000 (which would be when subtracting govt. taxes and fees) just to get Platinum, unless*.
Pros: LT 1.2+ million miles. Suits my OneWorld needs (miles redemption, lounges, status, etc.). Flies direct to where I need to go (domestic).
UA = I'm really a OneWorld guy as it suits my needs better and I've heard "the grass isn't all green" at UA either (which is of course subjective)-
Pros: UA CC removes PQD for the 1st 3 tiers and they have a subscription Y+ which is nice. They fly out of SFO which would suit my travels needs, especially domestic.
BA = Fuel surcharge, especially for mileage redemption is horrible. Obviously doesn't suit my domestic needs.
Pros: Though Avios isn't what it once was its still not bad. If I have status with BA/OneWorld then I guess it won't be too bad flying on AA (at least so far when it comes to getting a decent seat, even in Y/MCE, etc.).I can get AA lounges on domestic flights as well. As I mentioned previously, its not too difficult in terms of cost and travel getting BA Silver which is basically equivalent to current AA Platinum/OneWorld Saphire.
*-The major unknown for me (of course there are others) is of a potential CC PQD with AA.
How many people are really out there "gaming" the system? Most don't even fly enough to earn status, let alone a higher-tiered status as well as time to "game" the system.
Rather than gutting the once highly-praised/regarded AAdvantage Program, IMHO AA could've have "tweaked" the system a bit more (such as making it harder to upgrade, etc.) but not have been so drastic (of course, "drastic" is quite subjective).
For example, the "Miles + Copay" for international travel while earning miles only in the originally ticketed fare was an excellent idea (not one created by Parker/Kirby). Something as such for domestic flights (regardless of status) might have been a way to go. Maybe cash or cash + 500 mile upgrades.
Maybe devaluation of CC miles rather than BIS miles (not that it would go well with CC companies ).
I simply haven't seen any originality (sans one or two mentioned here on this thread) by Parker & Kirby.
I've kind of used your idea Superguy and have come up with a "guesstimate" as to which direction I'm going in. This is a bit of a preliminary "guesstimate" so I do have more work to do.
This is what I've come up with:
AS = Would really like to go with AS however I'm not so sure how things are going to work out especially given the VX merger/acquisition (FF-revenue based or current methodology?, routes, etc.). Currently, AS still doesn't fly direct routes which I need (Bay Area to ORD/JFK/MIA). Will there be potential changes (drastic) to the FF program in a couple of years?
Pros: Excellent FF program and have a lot of airline partners. Not too difficult to get status such as MVP Gold. I've had fantastic service with them too.
AA = I don't want to spend north of $6,000 (which would be when subtracting govt. taxes and fees) just to get Platinum, unless*.
Pros: LT 1.2+ million miles. Suits my OneWorld needs (miles redemption, lounges, status, etc.). Flies direct to where I need to go (domestic).
UA = I'm really a OneWorld guy as it suits my needs better and I've heard "the grass isn't all green" at UA either (which is of course subjective)-
Pros: UA CC removes PQD for the 1st 3 tiers and they have a subscription Y+ which is nice. They fly out of SFO which would suit my travels needs, especially domestic.
BA = Fuel surcharge, especially for mileage redemption is horrible. Obviously doesn't suit my domestic needs.
Pros: Though Avios isn't what it once was its still not bad. If I have status with BA/OneWorld then I guess it won't be too bad flying on AA (at least so far when it comes to getting a decent seat, even in Y/MCE, etc.).I can get AA lounges on domestic flights as well. As I mentioned previously, its not too difficult in terms of cost and travel getting BA Silver which is basically equivalent to current AA Platinum/OneWorld Saphire.
*-The major unknown for me (of course there are others) is of a potential CC PQD with AA.
How many people are really out there "gaming" the system? Most don't even fly enough to earn status, let alone a higher-tiered status as well as time to "game" the system.
Rather than gutting the once highly-praised/regarded AAdvantage Program, IMHO AA could've have "tweaked" the system a bit more (such as making it harder to upgrade, etc.) but not have been so drastic (of course, "drastic" is quite subjective).
For example, the "Miles + Copay" for international travel while earning miles only in the originally ticketed fare was an excellent idea (not one created by Parker/Kirby). Something as such for domestic flights (regardless of status) might have been a way to go. Maybe cash or cash + 500 mile upgrades.
Maybe devaluation of CC miles rather than BIS miles (not that it would go well with CC companies
). I simply haven't seen any originality (sans one or two mentioned here on this thread) by Parker & Kirby.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:49 pm
#837
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
*Everyone should read this* ...because I think this post is almost prophetic for what is very likely to come down the pipe in the future. I can see almost all of this happening in the coming years... which is why the decision to become a free agent, or to move to another FFP has to be taken seriously.
It's a brave new world for the frequent flier. 2016 marks the last year of a truly generous airline loyalty program.
It's a brave new world for the frequent flier. 2016 marks the last year of a truly generous airline loyalty program.
Jun 9, 2016, 3:55 pm
#838
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
I don't think these things *might* happen. I think the direction of FFPs shows us that they most likely WILL.
And if that is the case, why continue to invest your $ into a program that will leave you wanting more and more into the future.
If I am going to spend $36K on travel over the next 3 years, I want to do that with a company that I feel would actually value my investment 3 years from now. Not one that continued to whittle away the value each year.
And if that is the case, why continue to invest your $ into a program that will leave you wanting more and more into the future.
If I am going to spend $36K on travel over the next 3 years, I want to do that with a company that I feel would actually value my investment 3 years from now. Not one that continued to whittle away the value each year.
But why make that decision based on what might happen years from now? I mean, 3 or 4 years ago people on here were making ominous pronouncements about how changes were on the horizon, we'd never see upgrades or award inventory again, everyone should defect to DL, etc. If I'd listened to them, I'd have missed out on 3 or 4 years of free upgrades, lounge access, and other great benefits.
Now that things have actually changed, I'll re-evaluate. But I don't see any point in basing decisions on speculation about the future.
Now that things have actually changed, I'll re-evaluate. But I don't see any point in basing decisions on speculation about the future.
Jun 9, 2016, 4:03 pm
#839
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Munich, Deutscheland
Programs: Try to be elite again... :)
Posts: 488
I have a question about current year elite status qualification. I have 96900 EQM up to date and I will need additional 3100 EQM to be able to qualified as EXP. I understand the RDM will be based on dollars, but how about the EQM? What would be the earning rate for AA and for OW partners for EQM? I do not foresee any OW flights starting from now until August... that is why I am getting concerned...
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Jun 9, 2016, 4:04 pm
#840
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
And if that is the case, why continue to invest your $ into a program that will leave you wanting more and more into the future.
If I am going to spend $36K on travel over the next 3 years, I want to do that with a company that I feel would actually value my investment 3 years from now. Not one that continued to whittle away the value each year.
If I am going to spend $36K on travel over the next 3 years, I want to do that with a company that I feel would actually value my investment 3 years from now. Not one that continued to whittle away the value each year.