ARCHIVE 2012-14: Award Change for date, time, routing, co-terminal, cost, all changes
Jan 11, 2013, 2:34 pm
#46
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 164
This thread proves how crazy these rules are. I'm trying to book my honeymoon flights, and I plan on possibly making a change prior to the departure (due to flight availability), and i'm more confused than ever if i'll incur a fee or not.
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
Jan 11, 2013, 3:22 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
This thread proves how crazy these rules are. I'm trying to book my honeymoon flights, and I plan on possibly making a change prior to the departure (due to flight availability), and i'm more confused than ever if i'll incur a fee or not.
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
It actually is very simple about the change fee if you look at it in a Hierarchy. The top Hierarchy is related to Award Type change and is actually spelled out on AA website.
1) Award Type change always incur fee with one exception only. The exception is from a Partner award to an AA award. Outside this exception, all award type change is not free change.
So in your proposed booking, the award you want NOW is an AA award (on AA metal).
When JL becomes available, you want to change to JL flight, you would need to pay a fee.
2) Within SAME award type, as long as the Origin and Destination remain the same, and the routing change is among OneWorld Members, then it is free. Else it is not free.
That is it. Very basic and simple if you take out the wishful thinking on logic or whatever. Just go by what the rules are and forget about what "should have been based on the same logic" type of thinking.
Whoever told you it is free change is not correct unless AA has modified the free change rules - because there were data reported in other similar threads - one case was that a JFK-DFW-NRT AA flight cannot be changed for free to a JFK-LAX-NRT JL flight (the poster was also a PLAT IIRC) because the original award was an All AA award when the one he wanted was a partner award now being called OneWorld and Other Airlines award.
Personally I had a HNL-MIA-LIM AA award and I could not change MIA-LIM to LAN for free because it would be an award type change from All AA to A Partner award. The segment of MIA-LIM ended up a throw-away because AA metal never had the dates I needed to change to but I was not willing to pay $150x2 to fly the MIA-LIM on LAN.
Same can be said if there is an AS flight in one's itinerary, it pretty much makes it no free change in routing because AS is NOT a OneWorld member.
It is always advisable to start with a Partner award even with non-optimal routing to PRESERVE the free change. Ditto try not to include AS in one's international itinerary for the same reason.
I were you I would route thru a connecting flight to fly JL TPAC and hope the direct route opens up down the road to switch to a better routing, or back to the AA direct routing - in this case the award type change is the one and the only exception that is free.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 11, 2013 at 3:28 pm
Jan 11, 2013, 3:32 pm
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,588
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
Plat is irrelevant. Only EXP gets a free-ride. Everyone else pays.
It actually is very simple about the change fee if you look at it in a Hierarchy. The top Hierarchy is related to Award Type change and is actually spelled out on AA website.
1) Award Type change always incur fee with one exception only. The exception is from a Partner award to an AA award. Outside this exception, all award type change is not free change.
So in your proposed booking, the award you want NOW is an AA award (on AA metal).
When JL becomes available, you want to change to JL flight, you would need to pay a fee.
2) Within SAME award type, as long as the Origin and Destination remain the same, and the routing change is among OneWorld Members, then it is free. Else it is not free.
That is it. Very basic and simple if you take out the wishful thinking on logic or whatever. Just go by what the rules are and forget about what "should have been based on the same logic" type of thinking.
Whoever told you it is free change is not correct unless AA has modified the free change rules - because there were data reported in other similar threads - one case was that a JFK-DFW-NRT AA flight cannot be changed for free to a JFK-LAX-NRT JL flight (the poster was also a PLAT IIRC) because the original award was an All AA award when the one he wanted was a partner award now being called OneWorld and Other Airlines award.
Personally I had a HNL-MIA-LIM AA award and I could not change MIA-LIM to LAN for free because it would be an award type change from All AA to A Partner award. The segment of MIA-LIM ended up a throw-away because AA metal never had the dates I needed to change to but I was not willing to pay $150x2 to fly the MIA-LIM on LAN.
Same can be said if there is an AS flight in one's itinerary, it pretty much makes it no free change in routing because AS is NOT a OneWorld member.
It is always advisable to start with a Partner award even with non-optimal routing to PRESERVE the free change. Ditto try not to include AS in one's international itinerary for the same reason.
I were you I would route thru a connecting flight to fly JL TPAC and hope the direct route opens up down the road to switch to a better routing, or back to the AA direct routing - in this case the award type change is the one and the only exception that is free.
Perhaps I'm misiremembering, or things have changed, but I thought that sukn had previously posted that the fee for changing an award type is also waived when going from an AA-only award to a Partner award involving only oneworld carriers.
But there may be another issue here. Even though NRT and HND are co-terminals, they are different airports. Wouldn't the re-deposit/re-claim fee have to be paid because the destination is changing?
Originally Posted by Happy
This thread proves how crazy these rules are. I'm trying to book my honeymoon flights, and I plan on possibly making a change prior to the departure (due to flight availability), and i'm more confused than ever if i'll incur a fee or not.
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
Below is my situation:
- I am AA Plat
- Original routing plan: JFK > HND in Z on a Sunday on AA metal
I want to book this flight now to secure our awards space, but potentially change the flight to JAL if they open up first class seats prior to our honeymoon. The rub is:
- New flight would be on JL in first (saver space if it opens up), not AA
- Flight would be on Monday, not sunday
- Route would be JFK > NRT, instead of JFK > HND
Now there is so much conflicting information in this thread, that my head is spinning. I called the AA plat desk, and the guy said I would be able to make the change without incurring a fee, but of course I'm highly skeptical of this, as agents have told me one thing in the past, and it has been a complete lie.
Any "experts" here able to help me figure out if my change will be possible to do fee-free?
Thanks
- JP
It actually is very simple about the change fee if you look at it in a Hierarchy. The top Hierarchy is related to Award Type change and is actually spelled out on AA website.
1) Award Type change always incur fee with one exception only. The exception is from a Partner award to an AA award. Outside this exception, all award type change is not free change.
So in your proposed booking, the award you want NOW is an AA award (on AA metal).
When JL becomes available, you want to change to JL flight, you would need to pay a fee.
2) Within SAME award type, as long as the Origin and Destination remain the same, and the routing change is among OneWorld Members, then it is free. Else it is not free.
That is it. Very basic and simple if you take out the wishful thinking on logic or whatever. Just go by what the rules are and forget about what "should have been based on the same logic" type of thinking.
Whoever told you it is free change is not correct unless AA has modified the free change rules - because there were data reported in other similar threads - one case was that a JFK-DFW-NRT AA flight cannot be changed for free to a JFK-LAX-NRT JL flight (the poster was also a PLAT IIRC) because the original award was an All AA award when the one he wanted was a partner award now being called OneWorld and Other Airlines award.
Personally I had a HNL-MIA-LIM AA award and I could not change MIA-LIM to LAN for free because it would be an award type change from All AA to A Partner award. The segment of MIA-LIM ended up a throw-away because AA metal never had the dates I needed to change to but I was not willing to pay $150x2 to fly the MIA-LIM on LAN.
Same can be said if there is an AS flight in one's itinerary, it pretty much makes it no free change in routing because AS is NOT a OneWorld member.
It is always advisable to start with a Partner award even with non-optimal routing to PRESERVE the free change. Ditto try not to include AS in one's international itinerary for the same reason.
I were you I would route thru a connecting flight to fly JL TPAC and hope the direct route opens up down the road to switch to a better routing, or back to the AA direct routing - in this case the award type change is the one and the only exception that is free.
But there may be another issue here. Even though NRT and HND are co-terminals, they are different airports. Wouldn't the re-deposit/re-claim fee have to be paid because the destination is changing?
Jan 11, 2013, 3:36 pm
#49
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 164
Plat is irrelevant. Only EXP gets a free-ride. Everyone else pays.
It actually is very simple about the change fee if you look at it in a Hierarchy. The top Hierarchy is related to Award Type change and is actually spelled out on AA website.
1) Award Type change always incur fee with one exception only. The exception is from a Partner award to an AA award. Outside this exception, all award type change is not free change.
So in your proposed booking, the award you want NOW is an AA award (on AA metal).
When JL becomes available, you want to change to JL flight, you would need to pay a fee.
2) Within SAME award type, as long as the Origin and Destination remain the same, and the routing change is among OneWorld Members, then it is free. Else it is not free.
That is it. Very basic and simple if you take out the wishful thinking on logic or whatever. Just go by what the rules are and forget about what "should have been based on the same logic" type of thinking.
Whoever told you it is free change is not correct unless AA has modified the free change rules - because there were data reported in other similar threads - one case was that a JFK-DFW-NRT AA flight cannot be changed for free to a JFK-LAX-NRT JL flight (the poster was also a PLAT IIRC) because the original award was an All AA award when the one he wanted was a partner award now being called OneWorld and Other Airlines award.
Personally I had a HNL-MIA-LIM AA award and I could not change MIA-LIM to LAN for free because it would be an award type change from All AA to A Partner award. The segment of MIA-LIM ended up a throw-away because AA metal never had the dates I needed to change to but I was not willing to pay $150x2 to fly the MIA-LIM on LAN.
Same can be said if there is an AS flight in one's itinerary, it pretty much makes it no free change in routing because AS is NOT a OneWorld member.
It is always advisable to start with a Partner award even with non-optimal routing to PRESERVE the free change. Ditto try not to include AS in one's international itinerary for the same reason.
I were you I would route thru a connecting flight to fly JL TPAC and hope the direct route opens up down the road to switch to a better routing, or back to the AA direct routing - in this case the award type change is the one and the only exception that is free.
It actually is very simple about the change fee if you look at it in a Hierarchy. The top Hierarchy is related to Award Type change and is actually spelled out on AA website.
1) Award Type change always incur fee with one exception only. The exception is from a Partner award to an AA award. Outside this exception, all award type change is not free change.
So in your proposed booking, the award you want NOW is an AA award (on AA metal).
When JL becomes available, you want to change to JL flight, you would need to pay a fee.
2) Within SAME award type, as long as the Origin and Destination remain the same, and the routing change is among OneWorld Members, then it is free. Else it is not free.
That is it. Very basic and simple if you take out the wishful thinking on logic or whatever. Just go by what the rules are and forget about what "should have been based on the same logic" type of thinking.
Whoever told you it is free change is not correct unless AA has modified the free change rules - because there were data reported in other similar threads - one case was that a JFK-DFW-NRT AA flight cannot be changed for free to a JFK-LAX-NRT JL flight (the poster was also a PLAT IIRC) because the original award was an All AA award when the one he wanted was a partner award now being called OneWorld and Other Airlines award.
Personally I had a HNL-MIA-LIM AA award and I could not change MIA-LIM to LAN for free because it would be an award type change from All AA to A Partner award. The segment of MIA-LIM ended up a throw-away because AA metal never had the dates I needed to change to but I was not willing to pay $150x2 to fly the MIA-LIM on LAN.
Same can be said if there is an AS flight in one's itinerary, it pretty much makes it no free change in routing because AS is NOT a OneWorld member.
It is always advisable to start with a Partner award even with non-optimal routing to PRESERVE the free change. Ditto try not to include AS in one's international itinerary for the same reason.
I were you I would route thru a connecting flight to fly JL TPAC and hope the direct route opens up down the road to switch to a better routing, or back to the AA direct routing - in this case the award type change is the one and the only exception that is free.
Basically, it sounds like it makes sense to book a more complex routing, using partner awards, because I will ultimately be able to simplify the itinerary (fee-free) to a single carrier (be it oneworld partner or AA metal) prior to departure as long as the origin/destination are the same (even if the dates change)
Sound right?
Jan 11, 2013, 3:40 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,588
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
"So how about booking a JFK (AA) > ORD (CX) > HKG (JL, business) > NRT with the goal to switch to a JFK > NRT direct flight on JL or "worst case" scenario JFK > HND on AA metal prior to departure?"
Won't work. Awards between North America and Asia 1 do not permit a transit via Asia 2. And again, switching the destination from NRT to HND might trigger the fee all by itself.
"So how about booking a JFK (AA) > ORD (CX) > HKG (JL, business) > NRT with the goal to switch to a JFK > NRT direct flight on JL or "worst case" scenario JFK > HND on AA metal prior to departure?"
Won't work. Awards between North America and Asia 1 do not permit a transit via Asia 2. And again, switching the destination from NRT to HND might trigger the fee all by itself.
Jan 11, 2013, 4:57 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
Perhaps I'm misiremembering, or things have changed, but I thought that sukn had previously posted that the fee for changing an award type is also waived when going from an AA-only award to a Partner award involving only oneworld carriers.
But there may be another issue here. Even though NRT and HND are co-terminals, they are different airports. Wouldn't the re-deposit/re-claim fee have to be paid because the destination is changing?
Perhaps I'm misiremembering, or things have changed, but I thought that sukn had previously posted that the fee for changing an award type is also waived when going from an AA-only award to a Partner award involving only oneworld carriers.
But there may be another issue here. Even though NRT and HND are co-terminals, they are different airports. Wouldn't the re-deposit/re-claim fee have to be paid because the destination is changing?
In fact it was that first case I read prompted me to call AA to inquire the possibility of the MIA-LIM to LAN when it was hopeless to find an AA availability and I was told the $150 fee.
If sukn was able to change from an All AA to a Partner for free, then it is a very good news in that AA finally makes the free change between award types a more uniform treatment thus eliminating the confusion.
You might be right about the issue of co-terminals may not apply in the regular awards but I remember seeing co-terminal are allowed in a regular award booking (that used to be not allowed). I also vaguely remember reading about successful change between co-terminals on the regular award. It is definitely not allowed on Explorer award unless something has changed.
On initial booking AA website actually allows co-terminal changes in the middle of an itinerary.
Jan 11, 2013, 5:03 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
So how about booking a JFK (AA) > ORD (CX) > HKG (JL, business) > NRT with the goal to switch to a JFK > NRT direct flight on JL or "worst case" scenario JFK > HND on AA metal prior to departure?
Basically, it sounds like it makes sense to book a more complex routing, using partner awards, because I will ultimately be able to simplify the itinerary (fee-free) to a single carrier (be it oneworld partner or AA metal) prior to departure as long as the origin/destination are the same (even if the dates change)
Sound right?
Basically, it sounds like it makes sense to book a more complex routing, using partner awards, because I will ultimately be able to simplify the itinerary (fee-free) to a single carrier (be it oneworld partner or AA metal) prior to departure as long as the origin/destination are the same (even if the dates change)
Sound right?
However basically the free change is a great facilitator to get a better routing down the road when initial routing is a cumbersome one due to availability.
Were you able to find BOS-NRT on JL? So a JFK-BOS-NRT AA/JL can change to JFK-NRT JL for free once the availability opens up.
Jan 11, 2013, 5:26 pm
#53
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
Whenever a thread on this subject starts, there is hopeless confusion. YMMV.
Jan 11, 2013, 5:32 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: PER
Programs: BA Gold, QF Gold, VA Gold, IC Diamond Amb., HH Diamond
Posts: 777
I made the following changes as an EXP and there was no cost involved:
PER-SIN QF Y
to
SYD-SIN QF J
to
SYD-SIN BA F
I didn't change the date at any stage. Each time the EXP desk just refunded the miles and reissued the new award on the same PNR.
It's my understanding though that if I was not EXP I would have been charged $150 for each award 'cancellation'.
Each time I made a change I had to pay the new taxes/fees with the previous charges refunded to me within a few days.
PER-SIN QF Y
to
SYD-SIN QF J
to
SYD-SIN BA F
I didn't change the date at any stage. Each time the EXP desk just refunded the miles and reissued the new award on the same PNR.
It's my understanding though that if I was not EXP I would have been charged $150 for each award 'cancellation'.
Each time I made a change I had to pay the new taxes/fees with the previous charges refunded to me within a few days.
Jan 11, 2013, 5:55 pm
#55
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 164
The proposed routing wont work because HKG is in Asia 2. Can't transit in Asia 2 to Asia 1.
However basically the free change is a great facilitator to get a better routing down the road when initial routing is a cumbersome one due to availability.
Were you able to find BOS-NRT on JL? So a JFK-BOS-NRT AA/JL can change to JFK-NRT JL for free once the availability opens up.
However basically the free change is a great facilitator to get a better routing down the road when initial routing is a cumbersome one due to availability.
Were you able to find BOS-NRT on JL? So a JFK-BOS-NRT AA/JL can change to JFK-NRT JL for free once the availability opens up.
That's the consensus?
Jan 11, 2013, 6:33 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I made the following changes as an EXP and there was no cost involved:
PER-SIN QF Y
to
SYD-SIN QF J
to
SYD-SIN BA F
I didn't change the date at any stage. Each time the EXP desk just refunded the miles and reissued the new award on the same PNR.
It's my understanding though that if I was not EXP I would have been charged $150 for each award 'cancellation'.
Each time I made a change I had to pay the new taxes/fees with the previous charges refunded to me within a few days.
PER-SIN QF Y
to
SYD-SIN QF J
to
SYD-SIN BA F
I didn't change the date at any stage. Each time the EXP desk just refunded the miles and reissued the new award on the same PNR.
It's my understanding though that if I was not EXP I would have been charged $150 for each award 'cancellation'.
Each time I made a change I had to pay the new taxes/fees with the previous charges refunded to me within a few days.
Your example does not help anyone.
Jan 11, 2013, 6:35 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
So basically in need to just find a date where I can get from JFK/BOS/ORD/LAX to NRT on JL metal. At that point, once I have the ticket booked, I can either change my itinerary to AA metal in Z*, or switch to the JFK > NRT direct flight (or even JFK (AA) > ORD (JL) > NRT route) if it opens up as we get close to the date of my trip?
That's the consensus?
That's the consensus?
Jan 12, 2013, 8:40 am
#59
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
AA makes the "official" ruling. Or more accurately, the last AA telephone agent you talk to....
Jan 16, 2013, 8:19 pm
#60
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 164
Ok, well i have a JFK>NRT (JL) flight in F on hold for a date a few weeks prior to my planned departure.
The guy who put the ticket on hold for me said that if I were to change the award from JFK>NRT to JFK>HND, there would be a $150 change fee per person
He did say the best move if I had to do that would be to actually have the ticket canceled, and miles redeposited, as the second ticket would only be $25, for a total cost of $175 (instead of $300).
I'm going to do a little research to find out if JL tends to open up award seats to their partners at the last minute, or if I'm better off playing it safe and just booking the JFK>HND seat on AA metal
The guy who put the ticket on hold for me said that if I were to change the award from JFK>NRT to JFK>HND, there would be a $150 change fee per person
He did say the best move if I had to do that would be to actually have the ticket canceled, and miles redeposited, as the second ticket would only be $25, for a total cost of $175 (instead of $300).
I'm going to do a little research to find out if JL tends to open up award seats to their partners at the last minute, or if I'm better off playing it safe and just booking the JFK>HND seat on AA metal