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AAdvantage Changes for 2016 - DISCUSSION, REACTION & POLL

View Poll Results: My plans for dealing with the 2016 AAdvantage changes:
I'm actually benefitting from this - good deal for me.
46
6.80%
I'm neutral - I gain some, lose some. I'll stay.
132
19.53%
I'm not happy, but stuck with AA / oneworld at this point.
176
26.04%
I'm unhappy & will use AA & other airlines opportunistically.
274
40.53%
I'm outta here! Bye, American.
48
7.10%
Voters: 676. You may not vote on this poll

AAdvantage Changes for 2016 - DISCUSSION, REACTION & POLL

Old Mar 17, 16, 1:38 pm
  #1066  
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
Wow.. i just read about the RDM changes and I am so shocked... Please let me know if I am reading this right.

I have Platinum so I get 8 miles/Dollar spent.

That means my ticket that I bought for the end of the year TLV-LHR-CLT-MEM-PHL-MAD-TLV which only costs $607 ($760-$155 in taxes) will net only 4856 RDMs?

This same flight previously got me 27000 (13500+100% platinum bonus) miles. That's crazy.
you are correct that once the earnings rate changes that is what you will earn

I think that is is the point - that giving 27,000 points and 6,500 miles each way flight for $607 whilst someone else doing an expensive short flight might only get a couple of thousand points is crazy
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Old Mar 17, 16, 1:57 pm
  #1067  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
you are correct that once the earnings rate changes that is what you will earn

I think that is is the point - that giving 27,000 points and 6,500 miles each way flight for $607 whilst someone else doing an expensive short flight might only get a couple of thousand points is crazy
I understand if I only fly once a year and find a cheap flight. But when you spend close to $20,000 on flights a year you should get more than 5000 miles for a Trans atlantic flight especially when you have platinum status.

But it seems more and more the airlines don't really care about their customers and only the bottom line and the investors.
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Old Mar 17, 16, 2:17 pm
  #1068  
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
I understand if I only fly once a year and find a cheap flight. But when you spend close to $20,000 on flights a year you should get more than 5000 miles for a Trans atlantic flight especially when you have platinum status.

But it seems more and more the airlines don't really care about their customers and only the bottom line and the investors.
Why should distance rather than spend determine the points earned towards award travel?

As someone with Platinum status you will be earning more per dollar spent than someone who does fly once a year

The margin for the airline on someone paying $607 for a 13,000 mile journey is a lot less than someone paying $607 for , say, a 1000 mile journey - so why should that person earn 13 times as much?

The airline does care about customers - however it is choosing to reward based on spend rather than distance flown.
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Old Mar 17, 16, 3:36 pm
  #1069  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Why should distance rather than spend determine the points earned towards award travel?

As someone with Platinum status you will be earning more per dollar spent than someone who does fly once a year

The margin for the airline on someone paying $607 for a 13,000 mile journey is a lot less than someone paying $607 for , say, a 1000 mile journey - so why should that person earn 13 times as much?

The airline does care about customers - however it is choosing to reward based on spend rather than distance flown.
Why should a person earn more miles from renting a cheap rental car then flying? If you want to make it purely $$$ based, flying isn't even the most economical way to earn miles.

If your main point is that people who spend more need to be rewarded more, a hybrid system would be optimal - If you're flight is 3,000 miles, you would get at least 3,000 miles. Take into account the spend, and if the spend x multiplier is > 3,000 miles, you get those miles. If not, it's rounded up.
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Old Mar 18, 16, 4:20 pm
  #1070  
 
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Originally Posted by BThumme View Post
Why should a person earn more miles from renting a cheap rental car then flying? If you want to make it purely $$$ based, flying isn't even the most economical way to earn miles.

If your main point is that people who spend more need to be rewarded more, a hybrid system would be optimal - If you're flight is 3,000 miles, you would get at least 3,000 miles. Take into account the spend, and if the spend x multiplier is > 3,000 miles, you get those miles. If not, it's rounded up.
Exactly... I can't help it that some of my flying times are during the down season. so now I am being punished in miles for flying during low season and still being punished for high season...

Here is the latest flight i booked. same itinerary. Cost: $2200 High season.

With 8 miles to the dollar I am only going to get 16,000 miles when in the past this same route got me the same 27000 miles. This is ludicrous. It doesnt matter how much you spend they are punishing long haul economy fliers.. period end of story.
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Old Mar 18, 16, 8:14 pm
  #1071  
 
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Correct, they are punishing low margin customers, like any other business.
If you buy a Lexus, you get perks from the high margin on the product. If you buy a Toyota, you won't, even though you get the same hardware.
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Old Mar 18, 16, 8:47 pm
  #1072  
 
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Originally Posted by LaserSailor View Post
Correct, they are punishing low margin customers, like any other business.
If you buy a Lexus, you get perks from the high margin on the product. If you buy a Toyota, you won't, even though you get the same hardware.
Well to build off your anaglogy, it's like saying now instead of being able to get an oil change for your identical hardware for say $30, you have to do it from an official dealer for $100, for the exact same oil job applied in the same way.

It really hurts those who fly long-haul economy. It's frustrating that someone on a one way business ticket or last minute economy ticket Dallas-Chicago could get more miles then my round-trip COS-HKG ticket I have coming up.
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Old Mar 18, 16, 9:52 pm
  #1073  
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
Exactly... I can't help it that some of my flying times are during the down season. so now I am being punished in miles for flying during low season and still being punished for high season...

Here is the latest flight i booked. same itinerary. Cost: $2200 High season.

With 8 miles to the dollar I am only going to get 16,000 miles when in the past this same route got me the same 27000 miles. This is ludicrous. It doesnt matter how much you spend they are punishing long haul economy fliers.. period end of story.
The airline is adjusting its earnings to spend - that hardly seems ludicrous to me. Why should someonepaying $2200 earn almost as much as someone spending $6000 in a premium cabin?

If flying in low season, the passenger gains by paying less for the ticket

the kickback is being tied to spend rather than best rewarding the lowest margin travellers who can get earnings worth more than the purchase made
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Old Mar 18, 16, 10:07 pm
  #1074  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
The airline is adjusting its earnings to spend - that hardly seems ludicrous to me. Why should someonepaying $2200 earn almost as much as someone spending $6000 in a premium cabin?

If flying in low season, the passenger gains by paying less for the ticket

the kickback is being tied to spend rather than best rewarding the lowest margin travellers who can get earnings worth more than the purchase made
You are simply wrong... someone in the premium cabin would currently get more multipliers.

Not sure why you are defending this so much. It is clearly bad in everyway. And to add salt to the wound they are making it cost more for award tickets. So not only does it take longer to get miles now its harder to redeem them
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Old Mar 18, 16, 10:13 pm
  #1075  
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
You are simply wrong... someone in the premium cabin would currently get more multipliers.

Not sure why you are defending this so much. It is clearly bad in everyway. And to add salt to the wound they are making it cost more for award tickets. So not only does it take longer to get miles now its harder to redeem them
If someone flies 5,400 miles each way r/t LHR-LAX and holds platinum or executive platinum status

In economy class : earning would be 5400+5400 * 21,600
In business class : earning would be 5400+5400+1350 *2 = 24,300
Comparing , say, LHR-LAX r/t fares, in november, lowest economy is showing as $704 ( base $478 ) with business being approx 5.5 times higher at $4033 ($3704 base )

For a fare that that is 5.5 times that of economy fare, the earning is only 12.5% more. Hardly seems a fair rebate for such a hgh extra spend

In new scheme earning will be directly tied to dollar spend where for a platinum member , in economy will earn a total of 3,346 whilst business will earn 25,928

The tying to dollar spend seems much fairer to me; that the actual earnings for an economy passenger will be lower is not good for building up miles - that the higher spend earns more seems a lot fairer

It is not bad for those buying premium tickets, which would seem to be a nice target customer group to be attempting to give incentive to fly on what is a mediocre airline - in this LHR-LAX example , the business class passenger is slighty better off than before; being better for some , does not make it worse in every way

For an EP member in business class, the earning would be 40,744 - seems a lot better earning for that passenger

Last edited by Dave Noble; Mar 18, 16 at 10:26 pm
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Old Mar 19, 16, 4:35 pm
  #1076  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
If someone flies 5,400 miles each way r/t LHR-LAX and holds platinum or executive platinum status

In economy class : earning would be 5400+5400 * 21,600
In business class : earning would be 5400+5400+1350 *2 = 24,300
Comparing , say, LHR-LAX r/t fares, in november, lowest economy is showing as $704 ( base $478 ) with business being approx 5.5 times higher at $4033 ($3704 base )

For a fare that that is 5.5 times that of economy fare, the earning is only 12.5% more. Hardly seems a fair rebate for such a hgh extra spend

In new scheme earning will be directly tied to dollar spend where for a platinum member , in economy will earn a total of 3,346 whilst business will earn 25,928

The tying to dollar spend seems much fairer to me; that the actual earnings for an economy passenger will be lower is not good for building up miles - that the higher spend earns more seems a lot fairer

It is not bad for those buying premium tickets, which would seem to be a nice target customer group to be attempting to give incentive to fly on what is a mediocre airline - in this LHR-LAX example , the business class passenger is slighty better off than before; being better for some , does not make it worse in every way

For an EP member in business class, the earning would be 40,744 - seems a lot better earning for that passenger
Ok so again I ask you how is this helping anyone? It is only Hurting Economy long haul flyers.

Your example helps my point. the new system is giving the business class passenger a measly 1500 extra miles. where as the economy passenger is getting 18000 less miles.

In no way is this new system rewarding premium cabin flyers.

Unless by rewarding you meaning giving them the same miles while pushing the economy fliers down. Not sure how as economy flyer my RDMs really matter to a business flyer. or how they benefit from me earning WAY less...
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Old Mar 19, 16, 5:12 pm
  #1077  
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
Ok so again I ask you how is this helping anyone? It is only Hurting Economy long haul flyers.
Umm - an EP 1st class passenger earning 40,000 rather than 27,000 - how is that not helping the 1st class passenger
The business class passenger is also earning marginally more than before - it may not be a lot more , but it is still better

That earnings are targetted to spend seems to make sense to me - yes a lot of people will be worse off - but it is wrong to say that all will
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Old Mar 19, 16, 5:30 pm
  #1078  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Umm - an EP 1st class passenger earning 40,000 rather than 27,000 - how is that not helping the 1st class passenger
The business class passenger is also earning marginally more than before - it may not be a lot more , but it is still better

That earnings are targetted to spend seems to make sense to me - yes a lot of people will be worse off - but it is wrong to say that all will
FWIW -

While I think your math is correct Dave, to come out ahead, one would need to (almost) exclusively buy business class and first class tickets (or expensive coach).

And maybe that is exactly what AA wants... cut miles to 90%-95% of flyers and give more to the top 5% (or whatever the breakout is).

Safe to say, the vast vast majority of flyers come out worse on the new deal.
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Old Mar 19, 16, 7:54 pm
  #1079  
 
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Originally Posted by 110pgl View Post
FWIW -

While I think your math is correct Dave, to come out ahead, one would need to (almost) exclusively buy business class and first class tickets (or expensive coach).

And maybe that is exactly what AA wants... cut miles to 90%-95% of flyers and give more to the top 5% (or whatever the breakout is).

Safe to say, the vast vast majority of flyers come out worse on the new deal.
I think that is exactly the point.. it's no secret that First Class ticket sales have decreased significantly. And instead of just incentivizing these purchases airlines are devaluing economy and business class sales. This is a really bad sales technique that will end up pissing off the majority of AA's customers.


Look at United for a prime example of what happens when you start to forget who is making you your money. Yes the % of profit per sale might be lower but the vast majority of flyers fly Economy.
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Old Mar 19, 16, 8:44 pm
  #1080  
 
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Originally Posted by conklaven View Post
I think that is exactly the point.. it's no secret that First Class ticket sales have decreased significantly. And instead of just incentivizing these purchases airlines are devaluing economy and business class sales. This is a really bad sales technique that will end up pissing off the majority of AA's customers.


Look at United for a prime example of what happens when you start to forget who is making you your money. Yes the % of profit per sale might be lower but the vast majority of flyers fly Economy.
And if you're paying for full F or A, on a three class international ticket, it's pretty safe to say that with that much money, RDM earning isn't a priority.

You know it's bad when American's example of how people benefit is using an $1894 (and that's just basis, probably 2100 with taxes and other fees) for an economy ticket r/t DFW-LHR.
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