AA_EXP09

or Australia/NZ

AA_EXP09

I think that the leisure traveller is largely going to pick on cost first, then on schedule/benefits...

NA-Flyer

I am so happy with the new changes in the way of getting elite status with AA.

As an F and J only traveler (mostly international travel), in the past, I was not happy with the EQP given to F and J travel. Right now it is more rewarding with the new system of EQM in earning elite status especially for premium travel customers.

Redemption cost went up badly but still acceptable and options are quite varies to include EY and other carriers like GF and so on.

I have also a BA Gold card and I decided not to work on renewing my status with BA and just concentrate on my membership with AA.

Global321

FWIW - Glad you are happy, but, net net, I do not think anyone is ahead.

At $20k a year and assuming you are buying good deals, mostly in business and first, you were ahead in both redeemable miles and EQP in the old system. ("you" = general business class buyer, not you personally.) If you spend more than that, and buy true F/C, you are getting very close to CK so the changes once again don't help, they only hurt. Add to that the lessor redemption rates and lower SWU, and, once again, you are behind.

Don't get me wrong... I am not wringing my hands... it is what it is and I will work to optimize the new system for myself, as I think everyone should, just as AA did. The real change will happen in 2017 when the new system is fully implemented. I think the CP ranks will fall significantly and maybe that will be good for me. I tend to buy mostly business class international and 50/50 F/C domestic and I still don't see how I am ahead in the new system.

ont

Award chart devaluation is the biggest blow.

Burning my AA miles, and, after that, WN, here I come.

Dave Noble

I disagree. someone purchasing international business/1st fares and booking on AA is likely to be ahead especially if holding top tier status

prior to current promotion , EQP earning was 1.5 - now will be EQM 2.0 or 3.0. So between 33,334 and 50,000 miles rather than 66,668 miles to attain top tier status

Mileaage earning . 11 miles per $ vs 2.25 to 2.5 miles per mile flown is also likely to net higher amounts with international travel

picking a UK-ORD fare as an example - $4121 cheapest fare listed for jam would earn 45,331 miles vs 17,790 miles

(Even for a member with platinum status 32,968 in new scheme is better than 17,790 , gold at 28,847 vs 11,862 and statusless 20,605 vs 9,884 )

EQP earning would be 11,860 currently for an I fare vs 15,812 EQM in new scheme

comparing this against a business redemption on same route. Old rate 50k , new rate 57.5k

currently, 1 trip will earn

35.6% of a 1 way redemption vs 78.9% under new scheme for Executive Platinum
35.6% of a 1 way redemption vs 57.3% under new scheme for Platinum
23.7% of a 1 way redemption vs 50.1% under new scheme for Gold
19.8% of a 1 way redemption vs 35.8% under new scheme for Statusless

Given the price per distance of international tickets, I think it likely that those purchasing them will v likely be ahead on other routes too

The redemption rate has increased, but the percentage of a redemption earned from the trip in this case has increased


What routes are you puchasing tickets on and what status do you hold?

stephem

I didn't think coming out "ahead" should have reasonably been seen as an option for anyone... Every program has been in retreat, so I am puzzled that so many people are surprised that they are worse off under the new program.
Rather, I think a comparison to BA Gold-- as the poster you quoted made-- is probably the best mindset, and the one I took into this.
Nobody will in the foreseeable future hand out RDMs like the current AA program does and the new award redemption rates also are pretty inline with what UA, DL and actually many non-US carriers charge.
I'm more or less with the poster you quoted, if there is a silver lining it's that elite status can be had for as few as 33.3k BIS miles, and for many who fly a mix of D/J/F somewhere in the 40k range.

Dave Noble

My point was quite clear I think ; the new scheme is not more complicated than the old. If wanting to know how much will be earned, doing a $ x 5/7/8/11 is easier than looking into disatances and then adding any applicable bonuses

I doubt very much it wil be based on how many coupons make up the itinerary , nor how many PNRs ( 1 ATW ticket can have multiple PNRs depending on how many carriers are in the itinerary ) . By ticket, I doubt that it means anything other than a single ticketed itinerary

anabolism

I wasn't aware that anyone had argued for the new or the old being simpler or more complex. Both have their complexities (sum of distance between ticketed points modulo applicable minimums vs fare minus taxes and fees but including fuel surcharges, e.g.)

A coupon is a segment, so it wouldn't be based on that. Generally, each itinerary is tied to a single PNR (in the case of multiple carriers with different GDSes, the additional PNRs are an artifact that no one would imagine would be the basis for mileage earning). "A single ticketed itinerary" probably means one PNR. But, I'm sure this will be revealed when AA releases more details.

Global321

I guess I should slightly amend my statement... for 99% of AA elites this does not work out better - 100% of those below EXP. If you are arguing the people buying full fare First or Business come out ahead, no argument. (But, they should get a CT SCAN asap! ) If you are arguing some who buy discounted business will get EXP faster, probably true for some. I fly more to Asia than Europe, so maybe that is where part of the difference is. Also, fewer SWU to start which means fewer overall. BUT when you look at the program overall - lower FF miles, higher award prices, fewer SWU's - the program is worse for 99% of AA elites. Anyway, here are comments and some routes I have flown this year...

1. Maybe UK-USA is more expensive, but from the USA, who is paying $4k to go to the UK these days? $2k-$2.5k max. (EQP - ~18,000) FWIW - there is a thread on London right now - during the holidays for under $2k. (DUB-MIA $900-1500 most of the year) On going sale with LOT for $2200 to London. Many more.
2. Asia on AA was had for under $3k most of 2015 in business - both ICN and HKG. (Under $3k in First if you flew ICN-USA RT) (HKG-DFW-East Coast - ~26,000 EQP, ICN-DFW-East Coast - ~24,000). Right now numerous USA-Asia for under $4k.
3. You could have flown CX business MLE-HKG-USA for under $2,400. (~32,000+ EQP for 1 trip!). Right now still under $4k.
4. You could fly Finnair (and still can I think) for around $3k... USA-HEL-BKK (~27,000EQP)

Assuming each route is flown once, about $14k... 127,000 EQP, and with 2015 bonuses over 200,000 FF miles.

Under the new program, FF miles would drop to 154,000 in this system. EQP may go up slightly. BUT, when adding in all the domestic flying - a mix of coach and business - the new "deal" gets worse for FF miles, which quite frankly is what I care about. (I will hit EXP either way.)

Most people are focused on international, but, domestic gets hit hard on the FF mile front. Look at some of my recent flights...

Coach... $300 coach ticket (SFO-MIA, ~5160 RT) goes from 7740 FF miles to 3300 FF miles... 5160 EQM is the same EQM. On another ticket... Domestic First (discounted)... $700 one-way ticket (MIA-SFO)... goes from ~10,320 FF miles to 7700 FF miles... 7740 EQP goes up to 14,000 EQM.

So assuming a ratio of 2-1 (coach vs first domestic) I get crushed on FF (-11,000) and ahead on EQP (+6200). Given the devaluation of the award chart, the hit to FF miles is even more severe.

I am probably on the high end on the EXP curve - over 250,000 EQP this year - so getting more EQM means zero to me - I can't spend them!

For AA, as I have stated before, this is probably the right move. And it may have the desired effect... more of my OW flying will be on AA. BUT, I will be flying a mix of alliances once I know I will keep EXP status. I will save money, spread out my risk and experience other alliances international business and first. This is the consequence of all these carriers making price the driver... it becomes the driver!

Agreed. All I commented on was the OP saying he was happy about this (which I interpreted as OP saying it is better).

Given the choice, would anyone reasonably pick the new program over the existing one?

Dave Noble

[QUOTE=110pgl;25783473]I guess I should slightly amend my statement... for 99% of AA elites this does not work out better - 100% of those below EXP. If you are arguing the people buying full fare First or Business come out ahead, no argument. (But, they should get a CT SCAN asap! [/quote[

That was not full fare - that was the lowest I class that i used to compare against
All members ( not just EP members ) came out ahead on this basis

Whether you fly to Europe or fly to Asia, it is easier to attain status at 2.0 or 3.0 points per mile flown vs 1.5 - also any economy AA sectors will earn a minimum of 1.0 rather than potentially being 0l5

Looking , for example, at US-Asia, ORD-NRT starts at $5400 and ORD-HKG starts at $6730 r/t.

$5400 would be earning 27k, 37.8k, 43.2k, 59.4k depending on status which is significantly better than the mileage of 6274 would allow for ( 7.8k, 9.4k, 14.1k, 14.1k )

I can unserstand AA reducing the number of premium cabin giveaways - it is a real peculiarilty of the USA to want to give away the product


I would disagree there. There are plenty of people who will be buying tickets that are not the lowest advance purchase price

Those buying tickets out of odd locations where fares are low are , I would suggest, the exception than the rule. The purchasers ex CMB , MLE etc are exceptions I would posit.

Yes, those that are particularly looking around for special low fare locations will indeed be impacted , but then , does that not actually make reasonable sense that someone paying 2x the price get 2x the rewards

If you are someone who does premium class travel on most AA routes and not one who is hunting out locations with low fares, but travelling where getting from A-B is the key thing ( which the person may well be ) , then could be very hapy with the changes . Spend $6818 and get 75,000 redeemable miles is pretty decent ; even with higher redemption rates it works out well

I agree that there are a lot more people who are negatively impacted than positively impacted, but would suggest that the changes are not bad for everyone

Dave Noble

A OPTAB paper ticket can consist (iirc) of 1,2 or 4 coupons

A single ticketed itinerary can consist of multiple PNRs.

e.g. if a ticket is issued by AA, there will be an AA PNR. If there is travel on say, BA or CX, there will be an Amadeus PNR , plus if there is a segment on MH, there would be an MH PNR

In this example, there would be 3 PNRs for 1 ticketed itinerary

Regardless , it is idle speculation until AA chooses to confirm details of earnings for non AA travel and for travel with a mix of AA and non AA travel

stephem

I mean this in a nice way, but given the direction in which FF programs have been going, on what planet was that choice going to be available? I mean, I didn't like it when US-Asia business awards jumped up from 90k miles on most carriers about 10 years ago, DL gutted the NW program, BA absorbed BMI diamond club, etc, but I saw those coming and didn't expect to be given a choice to opt to continue the old program.

But the other thing worth mentioning in the discussion of how we get so few miles for these discounted business tickets is just how cheap business class travel has become. At least for the last 3 years, I am happy having cheap paid business (that I can find space on for all 5 family members no less) as opposed to spotty but cheap awards. Whether paid business class stays in that price range is another matter ;-)

MarkedMan

[QUOTE=Dave Noble;25783644]I'd have to agree there. Not on your life does the average business traveler buying tickets to London pay 2k on a regular basis. 3.something-k can be had from time to time, 2/2.5k is a sale and you have to fall into it. I hadn't seen sub-2k in quite some time until the recent two day bonanza. It's folks who are getting called out to London on two to four weeks' notice who are going to benefit. They are most assuredly not paying 2k for the privilege. They are paying four to six and benefiting accordingly. Not saying I like it, but that's the target, clearly.

sombrachinesca

Let's try some real numbers-

Last summer: East Coast--HKG r/t in J, $3586 base fare, 18,894 actual miles

Miles earned by EXP: 18,894 base + 18,894 status + 9,447 COS = 47,235
Miles under new program: $3586 x 11 = 39,446


I'm coming out ahead on this how???

I don't mind AA changing the program - but don't try to say that this is in anyway a benefit for the customer.

PS - I can find r/t in March for $4330... nobody in their right mind is paying $6+ to fly AA from the East Coast... P fares are currently just over $6K.