This is a first... even for me! PPT award routing (through fare) restrictions...
Nov 21, 2013, 10:17 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
This is a first... even for me! PPT award routing (through fare) restrictions...
For as long as I can remember, going back to at least 2005 if not earlier, I have been flying CVG-DFW-LAX-PPT on a SINGLE 37.5K South Pacific award (or the 75K round trip before the days of one-ways) with all segments except the last one on AA and the last one on TN (Air Tahiti Nui). Fastforward to day-before-yesterday when I wanted to do it again for Oct 2014. I tried a simpler routing this time: CMH-LAX-PPT. I got the shock of my life when I found out that this was pricing as 2 awards - the first leg on AA as 12.5K domestic, and the second on TN as the usual 37.5K.
The nice lady who booked it went to the Rate Desk and got the "correct" fare which was a single 37.5K award stored and waited patiently for the Rate Desk to finish up so she could put the record on hold. The next morning, I called again to confirm everything and was told that there had been a review and it had been determined that two awards would in fact be needed. I was flabbergasted again. They once more went back to a supervisor for a third time and this is what they found. Apparently to be able to use award space on the TN flight from LAX-PPT:
1) If I originate in DFW or ORD I can use AA for the connection to get to LAX and it would be one award.
2) If I originate in CVG or CMH, I can only use --- wait for it --- DELTA!!! to connect to LAX and then pick up the TN flight to PPT.
I'm sorry, did I hear that right? The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta? In my nearly 15 years of doing this, I have never heard of such a restriction, and it is even more stunning since (1) I have flown this route several times before on one award and (2) the rule requires use of an airline which is NOT part of the AAdvantage program or OneWorld, which completely precludes it from being used in the itinerary.
I just wanted to check with others if they have run into this, or maybe the Mods or the AA Rep could possibly shed some light and give me some direction. I have the rez on hold for a few more days and before I blindly fork out additional miles, I would love to know if this is indeed for real, especially with the different supervisors and Rate Desk agents who all seem to have differing opinions!
Of course I understand that fare rules exist (e.g. the last time I flew it, the only way I could get to IPC on one award from the US was to connect via PPT on TN to LAN), but the mandatory use of a non-partner is an absolute first for me.
Thanks
The nice lady who booked it went to the Rate Desk and got the "correct" fare which was a single 37.5K award stored and waited patiently for the Rate Desk to finish up so she could put the record on hold. The next morning, I called again to confirm everything and was told that there had been a review and it had been determined that two awards would in fact be needed. I was flabbergasted again. They once more went back to a supervisor for a third time and this is what they found. Apparently to be able to use award space on the TN flight from LAX-PPT:
1) If I originate in DFW or ORD I can use AA for the connection to get to LAX and it would be one award.
2) If I originate in CVG or CMH, I can only use --- wait for it --- DELTA!!! to connect to LAX and then pick up the TN flight to PPT.
I'm sorry, did I hear that right? The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta? In my nearly 15 years of doing this, I have never heard of such a restriction, and it is even more stunning since (1) I have flown this route several times before on one award and (2) the rule requires use of an airline which is NOT part of the AAdvantage program or OneWorld, which completely precludes it from being used in the itinerary.
I just wanted to check with others if they have run into this, or maybe the Mods or the AA Rep could possibly shed some light and give me some direction. I have the rez on hold for a few more days and before I blindly fork out additional miles, I would love to know if this is indeed for real, especially with the different supervisors and Rate Desk agents who all seem to have differing opinions!
Of course I understand that fare rules exist (e.g. the last time I flew it, the only way I could get to IPC on one award from the US was to connect via PPT on TN to LAN), but the mandatory use of a non-partner is an absolute first for me.
Thanks
Nov 21, 2013, 10:55 pm
#2
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"The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta?"
Not quite.
When you use a partner carrier for the over-water segment on an AA award, the itinerary will price as a single award if and only if the over-water carrier has a published through-fare from origin to destination which permits the particular routing (including restrictions as to which carriers can be used).
There is no "fare rule" on an AA award. The fare rule is on TN's published cash fares, and those rules determine whether your AA award itinerary will require one or two awards.
Maybe you were lucky in the past, or maybe the routing restrictions on TN's published fares have changed over time.
"The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta?"
Not quite.
When you use a partner carrier for the over-water segment on an AA award, the itinerary will price as a single award if and only if the over-water carrier has a published through-fare from origin to destination which permits the particular routing (including restrictions as to which carriers can be used).
There is no "fare rule" on an AA award. The fare rule is on TN's published cash fares, and those rules determine whether your AA award itinerary will require one or two awards.
Maybe you were lucky in the past, or maybe the routing restrictions on TN's published fares have changed over time.
Last edited by JDiver; Apr 27, 2015 at 7:40 pm Reason: Add emphasis to restriction
Nov 21, 2013, 11:05 pm
#3
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Since ORD-LAX-PPT prices as a single AA award, you can minimize the pain by redeeming only 4,500 BA Avios each way for the short flight between CMH or CVG and ORD.
Since ORD-LAX-PPT prices as a single AA award, you can minimize the pain by redeeming only 4,500 BA Avios each way for the short flight between CMH or CVG and ORD.
Nov 22, 2013, 1:12 am
#5
Join Date: May 2003
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Posts: 1,452
At least, that's what I recall an agent telling me when I tried to repeat the ASP-SYD-PPT-JFK that my wife did the year before.
Could it be that the OP just hasn't flown the route since then?
Of course, it could also be that TN stopped publishing the fare as suggested here. They've shaken things up quite a bit in the past few years (no SYD, no JFK, etc.).
Nov 22, 2013, 1:15 am
#6
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I just spot checked some of the routing rules for published fares on TN CVG-PPT. They are all constructed fares. This would unfortunately cause them to price as two awards. Not saying it's right, but it looks like that's the deal. I did see some fares which require the domestic flights to be on DL, but even those were constructed so wouldn't help anyway. All I can think is that TN used to publish a non-constructed fare between these cities and has ceased doing so. 
In addition to redeeming Avios for the short flight it would also be possible to buy that ticket with cash and tack on the award around it.
In addition to redeeming Avios for the short flight it would also be possible to buy that ticket with cash and tack on the award around it.
Nov 22, 2013, 8:51 am
#7
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No. North America to South Pacific in J (on a valid routing) costs 125K AA miles roundtrip, not 150K miles.
One can check award-seat availability for CMH/CVG-ORD and v.v. on aa.com; if MileSAAver seats are available there, then they should be bookable with Avios on ba.com.
Originally Posted by jmc1K
Based on the OP, am I correct to think that ORD-LAX-PPT would be 150K round trip in J? Using BA Avios, what's the chance of finding availability on the latter segment?
One can check award-seat availability for CMH/CVG-ORD and v.v. on aa.com; if MileSAAver seats are available there, then they should be bookable with Avios on ba.com.
Last edited by guv1976; Nov 22, 2013 at 8:53 am
Nov 22, 2013, 8:56 am
#8
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The likelihood of finding availability for LAX-PPT using BA Avios is zero: Air Tahiti Nui is not a BAEC partner.
The likelihood of finding availability for LAX-PPT using BA Avios is zero: Air Tahiti Nui is not a BAEC partner.
Nov 22, 2013, 12:40 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2009
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For as long as I can remember, going back to at least 2005 if not earlier, I have been flying CVG-DFW-LAX-PPT on a SINGLE 37.5K South Pacific award (or the 75K round trip before the days of one-ways) with all segments except the last one on AA and the last one on TN (Air Tahiti Nui). Fastforward to day-before-yesterday when I wanted to do it again for Oct 2014. I tried a simpler routing this time: CMH-LAX-PPT. I got the shock of my life when I found out that this was pricing as 2 awards - the first leg on AA as 12.5K domestic, and the second on TN as the usual 37.5K.
The nice lady who booked it went to the Rate Desk and got the "correct" fare which was a single 37.5K award stored and waited patiently for the Rate Desk to finish up so she could put the record on hold. The next morning, I called again to confirm everything and was told that there had been a review and it had been determined that two awards would in fact be needed. I was flabbergasted again. They once more went back to a supervisor for a third time and this is what they found. Apparently to be able to use award space on the TN flight from LAX-PPT:
1) If I originate in DFW or ORD I can use AA for the connection to get to LAX and it would be one award.
2) If I originate in CVG or CMH, I can only use --- wait for it --- DELTA!!! to connect to LAX and then pick up the TN flight to PPT.
I'm sorry, did I hear that right? The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta? In my nearly 15 years of doing this, I have never heard of such a restriction, and it is even more stunning since (1) I have flown this route several times before on one award and (2) the rule requires use of an airline which is NOT part of the AAdvantage program or OneWorld, which completely precludes it from being used in the itinerary.
I just wanted to check with others if they have run into this, or maybe the Mods or the AA Rep could possibly shed some light and give me some direction. I have the rez on hold for a few more days and before I blindly fork out additional miles, I would love to know if this is indeed for real, especially with the different supervisors and Rate Desk agents who all seem to have differing opinions!
Of course I understand that fare rules exist (e.g. the last time I flew it, the only way I could get to IPC on one award from the US was to connect via PPT on TN to LAN), but the mandatory use of a non-partner is an absolute first for me.
Thanks
The nice lady who booked it went to the Rate Desk and got the "correct" fare which was a single 37.5K award stored and waited patiently for the Rate Desk to finish up so she could put the record on hold. The next morning, I called again to confirm everything and was told that there had been a review and it had been determined that two awards would in fact be needed. I was flabbergasted again. They once more went back to a supervisor for a third time and this is what they found. Apparently to be able to use award space on the TN flight from LAX-PPT:
1) If I originate in DFW or ORD I can use AA for the connection to get to LAX and it would be one award.
2) If I originate in CVG or CMH, I can only use --- wait for it --- DELTA!!! to connect to LAX and then pick up the TN flight to PPT.
I'm sorry, did I hear that right? The fare rule on an AA award only allows a connection on Delta? In my nearly 15 years of doing this, I have never heard of such a restriction, and it is even more stunning since (1) I have flown this route several times before on one award and (2) the rule requires use of an airline which is NOT part of the AAdvantage program or OneWorld, which completely precludes it from being used in the itinerary.
I just wanted to check with others if they have run into this, or maybe the Mods or the AA Rep could possibly shed some light and give me some direction. I have the rez on hold for a few more days and before I blindly fork out additional miles, I would love to know if this is indeed for real, especially with the different supervisors and Rate Desk agents who all seem to have differing opinions!
Of course I understand that fare rules exist (e.g. the last time I flew it, the only way I could get to IPC on one award from the US was to connect via PPT on TN to LAN), but the mandatory use of a non-partner is an absolute first for me.
Thanks
Have you used miles for this route since the TN JFK to PPT flight was eliminated? This may be the source of the difference. I thought they have eliminated this flight. I know you are not flying from JFK, but maybe it eliminated a previous TN published fare.
As you mentioned I have always been able to fly ORD to LAX to PPT as one award.
Good luck
Nov 22, 2013, 12:50 pm
#10
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Code:
/VIA THE PACIFIC/ DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN US ONLY 1. CVG-DL-DTW/SLC-DL-LAX-PPT 2. CVG-DL-LAX-PPT
For a journey originating in DFW however, the routing rules permit
Code:
/VIA THE PACIFIC/ DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN US ONLY 1. DFW-AA-LAX-PPT 2. DFW-DL-ATL/SLC-DL-LAX-PPT 3. DFW-DL-LAX-PPT 4. DFW-TN-LAX-PPT 5. DFW-US-LAX-PPT 6. DFW-US-PHX-LAX-PPT
Since a paid fare from CVG/CMH does not allow the use of AA domestically, it doesn't seem that the rates desk was confused. Since DL is not valid for an AA award, 2 awards are being required by the rates desk
Nov 22, 2013, 12:58 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK/USA
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 830
Looking at the routing rules on a TN fare from CVG-PPT on EF, it shows
which does clearly indicate that TN only allows DL for the connecting service on its own fares ex CVG. Looking at CMH, the rules again only allow DL
For a journey originating in DFW however, the routing rules permit
so AA is permitted for the US domestic leg. Chicago again allows AA
Since a paid fare from CVG/CMH does not allow the use of AA domestically, it doesn't seem that the rates desk was confused. Since DL is not valid for an AA award, 2 awards are being required by the rates desk
Code:
/VIA THE PACIFIC/ DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN US ONLY 1. CVG-DL-DTW/SLC-DL-LAX-PPT 2. CVG-DL-LAX-PPT
For a journey originating in DFW however, the routing rules permit
Code:
/VIA THE PACIFIC/ DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN US ONLY 1. DFW-AA-LAX-PPT 2. DFW-DL-ATL/SLC-DL-LAX-PPT 3. DFW-DL-LAX-PPT 4. DFW-TN-LAX-PPT 5. DFW-US-LAX-PPT 6. DFW-US-PHX-LAX-PPT
Since a paid fare from CVG/CMH does not allow the use of AA domestically, it doesn't seem that the rates desk was confused. Since DL is not valid for an AA award, 2 awards are being required by the rates desk
Nov 22, 2013, 8:39 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
Yes, I have not done that exact route since 2009, which is before the one-way awards came about. I have flown into PPT after that but using other routings where this issue never came up. I just called AA again and they thought that the change from R/T to one-way awards is what has caused these route restrictions to become so iron-clad.
Figures.
Figures.
Nov 23, 2013, 12:26 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
Sad to say to the OP, AA is just following the correct rules here.A single award just does not apply out of your station. That's a restriction TN is placing since they dont want to pay for the segment.