Aug 29, 2016, 4:02 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Back to Back or "Nested" Tickets - Discussion
Ticket validity: Compliance with terms and conditions of sale (link)
American specifically prohibits practices commonly known as:
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Typically, these are tickets purchased to evade minimum stays such as seven days or Saturday night. E.g. Consultant John Doe flies AUS-SEA Monday, returns Thursday; he buys nested round trip excursion tickets using coupon 1 of ticket 1 outbound, coupon 1 of ticket 2 return, the coupons #2 the following week, etc. AA hates John Doe. AA wants Mr. Doe to stop it.
Ticket validity: Compliance with terms and conditions of sale (link)
American specifically prohibits practices commonly known as:
- Back-to-back ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
- Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary
- Confiscate unused flight coupons
- Refuse to board the passenger or check the passenger's luggage
- Refuse to refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Assess the passenger for the reasonable remaining value of the ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the passenger's actual itinerary
Typically, these are tickets purchased to evade minimum stays such as seven days or Saturday night. E.g. Consultant John Doe flies AUS-SEA Monday, returns Thursday; he buys nested round trip excursion tickets using coupon 1 of ticket 1 outbound, coupon 1 of ticket 2 return, the coupons #2 the following week, etc. AA hates John Doe. AA wants Mr. Doe to stop it.
Back-to-back or "nested" ticketing questions, discussion (consolidated)
Jun 14, 2017, 8:41 am
#226
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,483
My apologies in advance as I am sure this is answered somewhere in the FlyerTalk realm but it seems daunting to search for a concept that I don't know the name of. Just researching this morning I learned of the term "nesting fares" but I don't know if what I am considering would qualify.
My wife and I want to attempt a status run starting in January but use a positioning flight to Europe right before New Year's (pre-qualifying period). Once in 2018 we plan to fly round -trip EX ARN (Stockholm). My thinking is if we are going to do another trip in March, why not book another flight EX ARN that takes us home. It would basically put us on a cycle of flying round trip out of Europe despite being US citizens, with the eventual end goal of using miles or a cheap O/W to get permanently home. Is there anything wrong with doing that?
Here's the itinerary example:
JFK-ARN 12/29
ARN-SIN-ARN 1/1-1/10
ARN-JFK-ARN 1/10-3/10
ARN-JFK 3/17
My wife and I want to attempt a status run starting in January but use a positioning flight to Europe right before New Year's (pre-qualifying period). Once in 2018 we plan to fly round -trip EX ARN (Stockholm). My thinking is if we are going to do another trip in March, why not book another flight EX ARN that takes us home. It would basically put us on a cycle of flying round trip out of Europe despite being US citizens, with the eventual end goal of using miles or a cheap O/W to get permanently home. Is there anything wrong with doing that?
Here's the itinerary example:
JFK-ARN 12/29
ARN-SIN-ARN 1/1-1/10
ARN-JFK-ARN 1/10-3/10
ARN-JFK 3/17
Jun 14, 2017, 8:45 am
#227
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Jun 14, 2017, 11:36 am
#229
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
My apologies in advance as I am sure this is answered somewhere in the FlyerTalk realm but it seems daunting to search for a concept that I don't know the name of. Just researching this morning I learned of the term "nesting fares" but I don't know if what I am considering would qualify.
My wife and I want to attempt a status run starting in January but use a positioning flight to Europe right before New Year's (pre-qualifying period). Once in 2018 we plan to fly round -trip EX ARN (Stockholm). My thinking is if we are going to do another trip in March, why not book another flight EX ARN that takes us home. It would basically put us on a cycle of flying round trip out of Europe despite being US citizens, with the eventual end goal of using miles or a cheap O/W to get permanently home. Is there anything wrong with doing that?
Here's the itinerary example:
JFK-ARN 12/29
ARN-SIN-ARN 1/1-1/10
ARN-JFK-ARN 1/10-3/10
ARN-JFK 3/17
My wife and I want to attempt a status run starting in January but use a positioning flight to Europe right before New Year's (pre-qualifying period). Once in 2018 we plan to fly round -trip EX ARN (Stockholm). My thinking is if we are going to do another trip in March, why not book another flight EX ARN that takes us home. It would basically put us on a cycle of flying round trip out of Europe despite being US citizens, with the eventual end goal of using miles or a cheap O/W to get permanently home. Is there anything wrong with doing that?
Here's the itinerary example:
JFK-ARN 12/29
ARN-SIN-ARN 1/1-1/10
ARN-JFK-ARN 1/10-3/10
ARN-JFK 3/17
Also, keep in mind those minimum stay requirements are just relative to your origin. There are no rules requiring you to stay at a destination for any period of time. I did a trip CA-FL when they had a promo for NY-FL or CA, so I flew CA-NY and then NY-FL. Tickets had a Saturday stay requirement. The Saturday in FL qualified for both tickets.
Oct 22, 2017, 7:55 pm
#230
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: Whoever Has the Best Bonus
Posts: 5,183
I am having a frustrating experience with looking at flying to Europe through New York (since I really, really hate redeyes and that limits my gateway cities for daytime flights). I found very competitively priced flights with the daytime flight of my dream, but understandably have to add on from my home airport. With timings I have to add overnights in New York so I have no official connection, and luckily I have somewhere to stay so that doesn't add to my cost.
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
Oct 22, 2017, 8:01 pm
#231
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newton Centre, MA, USA
Programs: DL 2MM Gold, AA Plat Pro; Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium (via SPG), IHG Plat
Posts: 2,192
I am having a frustrating experience with looking at flying to Europe through New York (since I really, really hate redeyes and that limits my gateway cities for daytime flights). I found very competitively priced flights with the daytime flight of my dream, but understandably have to add on from my home airport. With timings I have to add overnights in New York so I have no official connection, and luckily I have somewhere to stay so that doesn't add to my cost.
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
Oct 22, 2017, 8:57 pm
#232
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LAX/BUR, RDU
Programs: DL SM, AAdvantage, SPG
Posts: 1,360
[...]
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
However nesting the European trip inside the New York tip for some reason doubles the cost when it's on one ticket -- while if I book two separate tickets its $300 cheaper per person. I'm not circumventing any minimum stay or Saturday night requirements, since actually one roundtrip is completely instead the other -- should I have any worries about booking the two tickets separately on AA?
Normally I'd just book different airlines but of course in this case AA has both the late New York feed flight AND the daytime flight I'm looking for. I'm guessing its OK (I've done pure nested tickets before when I've gone somewhere for a while and then went somewhere else while I'm there) but AA rules seem to leave room for interpretation since I am 'avoiding' some pricing by ticketing separately.
As stc said, you'll be fine. I just bought tickets like this to save $$$ and I double checked the CoC, which prohibits:
The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements
Jan 25, 2018, 10:10 am
#233
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Programs: AA Ex-Plat, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 670
Is this allowed?
PHL-MAD 3/13 on a one-way FF ticket
MAD-PHL 3/17
PHL-FCO 6/1 pd multi-city ticket
FCO-PHL 6/9 one-way FF ticket.
I will have multiple flights on AA within the US between 3/17 and 6/1.
MAD-PHL 3/17
PHL-FCO 6/1 pd multi-city ticket
FCO-PHL 6/9 one-way FF ticket.
I will have multiple flights on AA within the US between 3/17 and 6/1.
Jan 25, 2018, 9:24 pm
#235
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 56
On a long term engagement at a customer, I would normally fly on Sunday evening and return Thursday evening. With that said, on several occasion where I had to book some last minute flights, I found "nest" two weeks of itinerary via Departing Sunday (Week1) and return Thursday (Week2) and another itinerary return on Thursday (Week1) and Departing Sunday (Week2) to save company few dollars. Normally, I don't do this as it create an issue for my expense report, but periodically when the cost saving is more than 200 or 300 dollars for the two weeks, I do it to be a good corporate citizen.
l8r
-doc
l8r
-doc
Jan 26, 2018, 6:48 am
#236
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,483
Nested tickets are not against the rules, only using nested tickets to circumvent min-stay fare rules and the like is (which you're not doing) and even at that you'd have to be a VERY repeat offender before AA would even care.
Jan 26, 2018, 9:41 am
#237
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
On a long term engagement at a customer, I would normally fly on Sunday evening and return Thursday evening. With that said, on several occasion where I had to book some last minute flights, I found "nest" two weeks of itinerary via Departing Sunday (Week1) and return Thursday (Week2) and another itinerary return on Thursday (Week1) and Departing Sunday (Week2) to save company few dollars. Normally, I don't do this as it create an issue for my expense report, but periodically when the cost saving is more than 200 or 300 dollars for the two weeks, I do it to be a good corporate citizen.
l8r
-doc
l8r
-doc
Unless you are willing to take the hit if caught, being a good corporate citizen means doing the right thing and not exposing the company to excessive costs, be it dollars or time lost digging out of a mistake.
Jan 26, 2018, 11:52 am
#239
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
On a long term engagement at a customer, I would normally fly on Sunday evening and return Thursday evening. With that said, on several occasion where I had to book some last minute flights, I found "nest" two weeks of itinerary via Departing Sunday (Week1) and return Thursday (Week2) and another itinerary return on Thursday (Week1) and Departing Sunday (Week2) to save company few dollars. Normally, I don't do this as it create an issue for my expense report, but periodically when the cost saving is more than 200 or 300 dollars for the two weeks, I do it to be a good corporate citizen.
Two alternatives that WOULD be allowed (although they may or may not produce similar savings) would be to do the first and last flights* via one-way (years ago, this would have always been a losing strategy but these days with domestic tickets it sometimes is equally cheap) or to fly one of the pairs of flights with a different airline.
(* or just the first, and assume you're going to start buying all the flights departing from there until the fares flip around again.)
Jan 26, 2018, 12:00 pm
#240
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
On a long term engagement at a customer, I would normally fly on Sunday evening and return Thursday evening. With that said, on several occasion where I had to book some last minute flights, I found "nest" two weeks of itinerary via Departing Sunday (Week1) and return Thursday (Week2) and another itinerary return on Thursday (Week1) and Departing Sunday (Week2) to save company few dollars. Normally, I don't do this as it create an issue for my expense report, but periodically when the cost saving is more than 200 or 300 dollars for the two weeks, I do it to be a good corporate citizen.
l8r
-doc
l8r
-doc
And while the occasionally odd travel plan may inadvertently result in a nested fare, or even the one-off "I did it to save money once", this kind of repetitive 'week in week out' nesting is more likely to trigger something.
If the only thing you have to worry about is paying for a one way walk up fare, Id say BFD- just expense it. Would AA go beyond that? IMO that is the real concern. Cant say if they would