Incredibly Dissapointing Experience with AA Gold "Help"
Sep 15, 2009, 8:29 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: AA EXP, CO Platinum, SPG Platinum
Posts: 111
Incredibly Dissapointing Experience with AA Gold "Help"
I have just had a completely dissapointing experience with American that is making me reconsider flying with them in the future, and I thought I would pass along the story and see if other frequent fliers think I am simply being unreasonable.
In March, I purchased a RT ticket from JFK to Buenos Aires, and a RT milesaaver business class ticket for my wife for an outbound in December and a return in January. At the time, I was able to upgrade my outbound flight, but was waitlisted for an upgrade on the return. At the time of booking, I was fairly confident I would get the return upgrade, as I was booked on an 11:30 pm return, and there was also a 10:30pm return, both with wide open cabins. Clearly, I was taking a risk, but it was a calculated one based upon the two direct returns within an hour of each other. Well, in June, they cancelled the 11:30pm flight, and put us on the 10:30 pm flight. This was obiviously dissapointing, because it reduced my upgrade chances, so I checked to see if there was a aanytime business class tickets, and it turned out the entire cabin business class cabin on the 10:30pm was sold out. Fast forward to yesterday, and an aanytime business class seat became available. I asked the Gold desk, including two supervisors, if I could book the return using miles (including all applicable fees), and essentially convert my paid ticket into a one-way fare. Given that I am posting this, it is probably not a surprise to find out they said that I could not do this without paying a change fee and changing the cost of the ticket to the one-way fare, which was now going to be another $1400 (mind you less than a month ago, my one-way ticket would have cost about $400, much less than I paid at the time of booking). I am furious. It was AA who cancelled my original flight, and I was asking for a courtesy to allow me to give them more miles, and give them back a seat to sell, and they refused.
Am I being unreasonable, or should the airline try and accommodate a frequent traveler (gold this year, but was executive platinum for a number of years, and have had lowered status due to a little less flying the past two years - although it will increase this year)? I am well aware of the way tickets are priced, and the how some one-way fares are much more expensive - but I think in this case, where my flight was cancelled, and I am looking to give the airline more miles for an available seat, it is something the airline should accomodate (Delta has in the past for me, changed the days and times of paid tickets for me, when they have changed a flight time by less than an hour, and I have no status on that airline). I am really thinking of dropping AA as one of my two preferred airlines after this experience.
In March, I purchased a RT ticket from JFK to Buenos Aires, and a RT milesaaver business class ticket for my wife for an outbound in December and a return in January. At the time, I was able to upgrade my outbound flight, but was waitlisted for an upgrade on the return. At the time of booking, I was fairly confident I would get the return upgrade, as I was booked on an 11:30 pm return, and there was also a 10:30pm return, both with wide open cabins. Clearly, I was taking a risk, but it was a calculated one based upon the two direct returns within an hour of each other. Well, in June, they cancelled the 11:30pm flight, and put us on the 10:30 pm flight. This was obiviously dissapointing, because it reduced my upgrade chances, so I checked to see if there was a aanytime business class tickets, and it turned out the entire cabin business class cabin on the 10:30pm was sold out. Fast forward to yesterday, and an aanytime business class seat became available. I asked the Gold desk, including two supervisors, if I could book the return using miles (including all applicable fees), and essentially convert my paid ticket into a one-way fare. Given that I am posting this, it is probably not a surprise to find out they said that I could not do this without paying a change fee and changing the cost of the ticket to the one-way fare, which was now going to be another $1400 (mind you less than a month ago, my one-way ticket would have cost about $400, much less than I paid at the time of booking). I am furious. It was AA who cancelled my original flight, and I was asking for a courtesy to allow me to give them more miles, and give them back a seat to sell, and they refused.
Am I being unreasonable, or should the airline try and accommodate a frequent traveler (gold this year, but was executive platinum for a number of years, and have had lowered status due to a little less flying the past two years - although it will increase this year)? I am well aware of the way tickets are priced, and the how some one-way fares are much more expensive - but I think in this case, where my flight was cancelled, and I am looking to give the airline more miles for an available seat, it is something the airline should accomodate (Delta has in the past for me, changed the days and times of paid tickets for me, when they have changed a flight time by less than an hour, and I have no status on that airline). I am really thinking of dropping AA as one of my two preferred airlines after this experience.
Sep 15, 2009, 8:32 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,630
I have just had a completely dissapointing experience with American that is making me reconsider flying with them in the future, and I thought I would pass along the story and see if other frequent fliers think I am simply being unreasonable.
In March, I purchased a RT ticket from JFK to Buenos Aires, and a RT milesaaver business class ticket for my wife for an outbound in December and a return in January. At the time, I was able to upgrade my outbound flight, but was waitlisted for an upgrade on the return. At the time of booking, I was fairly confident I would get the return upgrade, as I was booked on an 11:30 pm return, and there was also a 10:30pm return, both with wide open cabins. Clearly, I was taking a risk, but it was a calculated one based upon the two direct returns within an hour of each other. Well, in June, they cancelled the 11:30pm flight, and put us on the 10:30 pm flight. This was obiviously dissapointing, because it reduced my upgrade chances, so I checked to see if there was a aanytime business class tickets, and it turned out the entire cabin business class cabin on the 10:30pm was sold out. Fast forward to yesterday, and an aanytime business class seat became available. I asked the Gold desk, including two supervisors, if I could book the return using miles (including all applicable fees), and essentially convert my paid ticket into a one-way fare. Given that I am posting this, it is probably not a surprise to find out they said that I could not do this without paying a change fee and changing the cost of the ticket to the one-way fare, which was now going to be another $1400 (mind you less than a month ago, my one-way ticket would have cost about $400, much less than I paid at the time of booking). I am furious. It was AA who cancelled my original flight, and I was asking for a courtesy to allow me to give them more miles, and give them back a seat to sell, and they refused.
Am I being unreasonable, or should the airline try and accommodate a frequent traveler (gold this year, but was executive platinum for a number of years, and have had lowered status due to a little less flying the past two years - although it will increase this year)? I am well aware of the way tickets are priced, and the how some one-way fares are much more expensive - but I think in this case, where my flight was cancelled, and I am looking to give the airline more miles for an available seat, it is something the airline should accomodate (Delta has in the past for me, changed the days and times of paid tickets for me, when they have changed a flight time by less than an hour, and I have no status on that airline). I am really thinking of dropping AA as one of my two preferred airlines after this experience.
In March, I purchased a RT ticket from JFK to Buenos Aires, and a RT milesaaver business class ticket for my wife for an outbound in December and a return in January. At the time, I was able to upgrade my outbound flight, but was waitlisted for an upgrade on the return. At the time of booking, I was fairly confident I would get the return upgrade, as I was booked on an 11:30 pm return, and there was also a 10:30pm return, both with wide open cabins. Clearly, I was taking a risk, but it was a calculated one based upon the two direct returns within an hour of each other. Well, in June, they cancelled the 11:30pm flight, and put us on the 10:30 pm flight. This was obiviously dissapointing, because it reduced my upgrade chances, so I checked to see if there was a aanytime business class tickets, and it turned out the entire cabin business class cabin on the 10:30pm was sold out. Fast forward to yesterday, and an aanytime business class seat became available. I asked the Gold desk, including two supervisors, if I could book the return using miles (including all applicable fees), and essentially convert my paid ticket into a one-way fare. Given that I am posting this, it is probably not a surprise to find out they said that I could not do this without paying a change fee and changing the cost of the ticket to the one-way fare, which was now going to be another $1400 (mind you less than a month ago, my one-way ticket would have cost about $400, much less than I paid at the time of booking). I am furious. It was AA who cancelled my original flight, and I was asking for a courtesy to allow me to give them more miles, and give them back a seat to sell, and they refused.
Am I being unreasonable, or should the airline try and accommodate a frequent traveler (gold this year, but was executive platinum for a number of years, and have had lowered status due to a little less flying the past two years - although it will increase this year)? I am well aware of the way tickets are priced, and the how some one-way fares are much more expensive - but I think in this case, where my flight was cancelled, and I am looking to give the airline more miles for an available seat, it is something the airline should accomodate (Delta has in the past for me, changed the days and times of paid tickets for me, when they have changed a flight time by less than an hour, and I have no status on that airline). I am really thinking of dropping AA as one of my two preferred airlines after this experience.
What are they?
Can you change with no penalty?
Is there change fees?
Status does not matter if you are trying to break the rules on the ticket you purchased.
Last edited by zman; Sep 15, 2009 at 9:44 am
Sep 15, 2009, 8:52 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,533
While it is disappointing, yes, I think you're overreacting. You are trying to change in such a way that the current fare difference is due. Had you made this change in June (when the flight was canceled) you'd have had a better chance of some sort of accommodation. You chose to gamble for an additional three months, and the gamble did not pay off. In the current set of circumstances you're asking for/expecting too much.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Sep 15, 2009, 9:09 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,234
I agree with brp -- you would have been able to "convert" to the one-way fare with no penalty at the time your flight was canceled, but it is unfortunate that there were no AAnytime business class seats available then. So you gambled that your upgrade would come through, when you could have gambled that an AAnytime seat would have come through. I probably would have changed to the one-way fare (which might have caused problems with your confirmed upgrade), and gambled on the AAnytime business opening up on the return, setting an ExpertFlyer alert to notify me the second a "J" seat opened up. With 3 months to go before travel, it's not surprising that a seat would eventually open due to a cancellation.
Of course it's easy to say I would do this, sitting here behind my computer.
Of course it's easy to say I would do this, sitting here behind my computer.
Sep 15, 2009, 9:11 am
#5
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 596
You ask if you're being unreasonable. I don't think you're being unreasonable or ridiculous at all, you certainly had every right to ask them for the change. After all, you bought a ticket on a flight. They decided without exactly consulting you to just not have that flight after all. The situation did change and they should step back and note that they did just arbitrarily cancel a plane flight *after* selling you a ticket on it.
That said, you don't have a right to upgrades or free (ie miles) tickets and so on. Those of us who fly often and get good at FF programs get used to them and almost feel it's an entitlement, but you too should step back and note that what you want (to sit in business class on a very long flight) is usually considered to be a very expensive luxury, and people do pay thousands of dollars for it regularly. I'm sure you're not the only one who's used your FF expertise and taken a risk and had it not work out. For example I've flown AA for substantially out of the way routings when there's a direct available on another carrier for less money, assuming I'd likely be in F anyways. When you miss clearing on one of those you do feel pretty annoyed. But you can't forget you bought a coach ticket.
In your case you can ask, and did, but you can't really expect them to do what you're asking, it's not really a request that they have to honor.
However, I could see a few other ways to do what you want that may or may not work, and I'm sure someone could tell me if they violate fare rules or are likely to cause problems.
What I would have done if this happened, in this order:
1) Call AA and say I'm sorry but since you cancelled my flight I won't be needing the return, I'm going to make other arrangements as I won't be able to make it an hour earlier, my schedule is too tight. Please just make this ticket a one-way ticket. If they say well that reprices to $XX kindly say, no offense but you cancelled the flight I booked. You sold me a ticket and don't even have that flight, I'm not asking for a refund even, just to scratch the return, and if you can explain why I have to pay more for getting rid of a flight I already paid you for and you cancelled then please explain. Should work.
2) Once that change is reflected and the ticket reissued, go back and book the one-way award for yourself. Consider varying your name (ie Edwin Morales to Edwin P. Morales or vice versa) from the other ticket just to make things easier.
This is far from a perfect solution but it might well work. The biggest problem would be if you "accepted" the change to the 10:30 flight months ago, then they could say sorry you can't unaccept it now. But by separating the two issues I think you'd be better off since each of the below seems pretty uncomplicated:
1) You cancelled my return flight. That doesn't work for me, just get rid of that leg. OR: I need to be on the the next evening's flight as you can't make the earlier one. (you'd just never fly that one)
2) I want to book a one way award here's the info.
What you did is try to combine 1 and 2 into a single complicated transaction where it seems like you're trying to get away with something you're not entitled to. The above may no longer be an option though, if you called and tried this already and there are notes about it you probably should not risk the above strategy or you might face that $1400 bill pretty quick. The trick would be to slip under the radar on something like this.
Other options:
Book a one-way ticket home with miles under the name "XTRA SEAT [LASTNAME]" with your wife's last name, and have her scan both boarding passes when she boards. This is the standard procedure for overweight people buying two adjacent seats and the system should take it no problem. Then just go sit up front. I guess the cabin crew could get snippy about this but I don't see why.
Or if you wanted to get incredibly creative, book a miles ticket in J for yourself (vary the name slightly per above) and buy yourself a cheap cello case in Buenos Aires and when you check in say I want to scan both boarding passes, one for my cello which I'll place in the coach seat and one for me. Act like you do it all the time. How good is your spanish?
(note: these strategies are pushing it a little and are partially posted for humor value, but they might actually work)
Good luck -- and though unlike some others here I feel no need to berate anyone for being annoyed and talking about taking business to another airline. We all get annoyed. That said, you should remind yourself you booked a round trip non-refundable coach ticket. And you're asking for a refund and/or not to fly in coach. Do remember what non-refundable/changeable and coach mean before you get *too* mad at the airline for not refunding or changing the ticket and seating you in coach.
That said, you don't have a right to upgrades or free (ie miles) tickets and so on. Those of us who fly often and get good at FF programs get used to them and almost feel it's an entitlement, but you too should step back and note that what you want (to sit in business class on a very long flight) is usually considered to be a very expensive luxury, and people do pay thousands of dollars for it regularly. I'm sure you're not the only one who's used your FF expertise and taken a risk and had it not work out. For example I've flown AA for substantially out of the way routings when there's a direct available on another carrier for less money, assuming I'd likely be in F anyways. When you miss clearing on one of those you do feel pretty annoyed. But you can't forget you bought a coach ticket.
In your case you can ask, and did, but you can't really expect them to do what you're asking, it's not really a request that they have to honor.
However, I could see a few other ways to do what you want that may or may not work, and I'm sure someone could tell me if they violate fare rules or are likely to cause problems.
What I would have done if this happened, in this order:
1) Call AA and say I'm sorry but since you cancelled my flight I won't be needing the return, I'm going to make other arrangements as I won't be able to make it an hour earlier, my schedule is too tight. Please just make this ticket a one-way ticket. If they say well that reprices to $XX kindly say, no offense but you cancelled the flight I booked. You sold me a ticket and don't even have that flight, I'm not asking for a refund even, just to scratch the return, and if you can explain why I have to pay more for getting rid of a flight I already paid you for and you cancelled then please explain. Should work.
2) Once that change is reflected and the ticket reissued, go back and book the one-way award for yourself. Consider varying your name (ie Edwin Morales to Edwin P. Morales or vice versa) from the other ticket just to make things easier.
This is far from a perfect solution but it might well work. The biggest problem would be if you "accepted" the change to the 10:30 flight months ago, then they could say sorry you can't unaccept it now. But by separating the two issues I think you'd be better off since each of the below seems pretty uncomplicated:
1) You cancelled my return flight. That doesn't work for me, just get rid of that leg. OR: I need to be on the the next evening's flight as you can't make the earlier one. (you'd just never fly that one)
2) I want to book a one way award here's the info.
What you did is try to combine 1 and 2 into a single complicated transaction where it seems like you're trying to get away with something you're not entitled to. The above may no longer be an option though, if you called and tried this already and there are notes about it you probably should not risk the above strategy or you might face that $1400 bill pretty quick. The trick would be to slip under the radar on something like this.
Other options:
Book a one-way ticket home with miles under the name "XTRA SEAT [LASTNAME]" with your wife's last name, and have her scan both boarding passes when she boards. This is the standard procedure for overweight people buying two adjacent seats and the system should take it no problem. Then just go sit up front. I guess the cabin crew could get snippy about this but I don't see why.
Or if you wanted to get incredibly creative, book a miles ticket in J for yourself (vary the name slightly per above) and buy yourself a cheap cello case in Buenos Aires and when you check in say I want to scan both boarding passes, one for my cello which I'll place in the coach seat and one for me. Act like you do it all the time. How good is your spanish?
(note: these strategies are pushing it a little and are partially posted for humor value, but they might actually work)
Good luck -- and though unlike some others here I feel no need to berate anyone for being annoyed and talking about taking business to another airline. We all get annoyed. That said, you should remind yourself you booked a round trip non-refundable coach ticket. And you're asking for a refund and/or not to fly in coach. Do remember what non-refundable/changeable and coach mean before you get *too* mad at the airline for not refunding or changing the ticket and seating you in coach.
Sep 15, 2009, 9:32 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,533
1) Call AA and say I'm sorry but since you cancelled my flight I won't be needing the return, I'm going to make other arrangements as I won't be able to make it an hour earlier, my schedule is too tight. Please just make this ticket a one-way ticket. If they say well that reprices to $XX kindly say, no offense but you cancelled the flight I booked. You sold me a ticket and don't even have that flight, I'm not asking for a refund even, just to scratch the return, and if you can explain why I have to pay more for getting rid of a flight I already paid you for and you cancelled then please explain. Should work.
Cheers.
Sep 15, 2009, 9:39 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,604
I have just had a completely dissapointing experience with American that is making me reconsider flying with them in the future, and I thought I would pass along the story and see if other frequent fliers think I am simply being unreasonable.
Sep 15, 2009, 9:41 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home Airports: CAE/CLT
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, National Executive
Posts: 5,452
^
The same can happen on any given airline.
The same can happen on any given airline.
I think the only unreasonable part is the part of reconsidering flying AA in the future. Everything else you posted is just a request/gamble/desire to fly in C on an upgraded ticket and being bummed out that your gamble doesn't look like it's going to pay off at this point in time.
Sep 15, 2009, 10:15 am
#9
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 596
I think that this is a good strategy, in general. The argument is weakened, though, by time. Doing this shortly after the change would likely work. Waiting three months signifies tacit acceptance of the change, especially since the OP called to find out about award seats and acknowledged acceptance of the change (making is far more than tacit). Still worth a try using Edwin's approach, but it will be a tough sell.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Considering the flights that night are jammed (per your first post) they'd probably happy to push you off to the next day.
Then you book yourself a miles ticket home and throw away the last coupon.
HOWEVER THIS HAS A RISK AND ISN'T ALLOWED - They could well come after you for that $1400 fee (or more, perhaps, fares change a lot) to change it to a one-way. If you spent a lot of time on the phone with them talking about trying to change it they probably have a record of it, and if you no-show they might well come after you. You would have been a LOT better off to do this "innocently" and say you had no idea it would be an issue. If you did have an in depth conversation about it with AA then I don't think this option is very smart. But depends on how lucky you feel. Or if you're considering paying the $1400 anyways and wouldn't be too upset if they stuck you with it after the fact.
Sep 15, 2009, 10:30 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,458
AA reserves the right to change their schedule. Would you rather have them go into bankruptcy operating empty flights?
We have all found ourselves in situations where we could have made a better (to us) decision, if we had had all the facts. I bought a nice recliner for $600 last week, thinking that it was a good deal. Of course, it went on sale this week for $400. Am I going to try to get $200 back? I called, but the store has no provision for price matching.
The same holds true for airline tickets. Everyone understands this and certainly the language is part of the CoC for the airlines.
We have all found ourselves in situations where we could have made a better (to us) decision, if we had had all the facts. I bought a nice recliner for $600 last week, thinking that it was a good deal. Of course, it went on sale this week for $400. Am I going to try to get $200 back? I called, but the store has no provision for price matching.
The same holds true for airline tickets. Everyone understands this and certainly the language is part of the CoC for the airlines.
Sep 15, 2009, 10:58 am
#11
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
If Delta really does consistently accommodate a request like this, ^ to them and that would be a factor that would make me want to fly them frequently. However, I agree with the general sentiment that AA's response here is perfectly reasonable. If an airline changes the schedule on a ticketed flight, I generally expect the ability to call the airline and ask for a) whatever schedule I want on the same routing (perhaps with a different transfer city) in the same class of service or b) the cancellation of the itinerary for a full refund, once, within a reasonable time period of the schedule change. I've been in this situation with several different airlines, including AA, and have always gotten the best of the schedules the airline still flies.
However, waiting three months with a call in the middle is pushing your luck, and you purchased an economy ticket on AA which they're still flying with only a minor schedule change. The fact that your guess on business availability didn't pan out isn't AA's fault, and if a seat opens but they're not willing to give it away for miles, that probably means AA's revenue management is doing their job.
A couple things to consider before really switching to Delta over this: 1) could you upgrade the equivalent economy fare you purchased on DL for miles + copay anyway? 2) Did you get lucky when you did this before, or is it standard operating procedure over there? 3) You said that Delta changed the days and times of paid tickets, but you did not say that they did what you want in this case (change from a round trip fare to a one way fare months after the schedule change and change your class of service). Both AA and CO have been willing to the date/time change for me at a time when I had no status with either.
If it were me, I'd be happy to have both my wife and I in business one way, and I'd grab an exit row in coach while she enjoys business on the return and keep my miles and copay. The upgrade may yet clear anyway....
However, waiting three months with a call in the middle is pushing your luck, and you purchased an economy ticket on AA which they're still flying with only a minor schedule change. The fact that your guess on business availability didn't pan out isn't AA's fault, and if a seat opens but they're not willing to give it away for miles, that probably means AA's revenue management is doing their job.
A couple things to consider before really switching to Delta over this: 1) could you upgrade the equivalent economy fare you purchased on DL for miles + copay anyway? 2) Did you get lucky when you did this before, or is it standard operating procedure over there? 3) You said that Delta changed the days and times of paid tickets, but you did not say that they did what you want in this case (change from a round trip fare to a one way fare months after the schedule change and change your class of service). Both AA and CO have been willing to the date/time change for me at a time when I had no status with either.
If it were me, I'd be happy to have both my wife and I in business one way, and I'd grab an exit row in coach while she enjoys business on the return and keep my miles and copay. The upgrade may yet clear anyway....
Sep 15, 2009, 11:04 am
#12
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 6,769
This will soon not be possible without multiple IDs with the new TSA rules.
Sep 15, 2009, 11:22 am
#13
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA EXP, 1 MM, AC, HH Diamond, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 4,010
It's too bad the timing didn't work out where OP could have flown the outbound and canceled the return, then booked the return with miles. But by then, the award seat might not have been available.
Sep 15, 2009, 11:38 am
#14
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
Just out of curiosity, did you check to see if there was upgrade availability when the SAAver seat became available? Although it's not a given, upgrade availability is often better than award ticket availability, so upgrading your existing ticket seems like a reasonable option.
In general, what you're asking seems pretty reasonable (providing you're not expecting money back from the unused half of your ticket), and it's disappointing that AA won't let you do it since it seems like you're proposing a win/win arrangement.
In general, what you're asking seems pretty reasonable (providing you're not expecting money back from the unused half of your ticket), and it's disappointing that AA won't let you do it since it seems like you're proposing a win/win arrangement.
Sep 15, 2009, 11:40 am
#15
Join Date: May 2006
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,137
Why OP can't just purchase the j tix as an extra seat for himself? Is this outside the rules? Yes, he'd have an econ seat and a bus seat assigned to him for the flight, but I don't see the problem -- and don't think he should have to be forced to pretend to play the cello OR that his wife is extra-wide, but maybe I'm missing some rules?