AA Orders 42 787 "Dreamliners" (+ 58 on options)
Oct 16, 2008, 8:11 am
#77
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Also, there is no "gentleman's agreement" between AA and Boeing. While I have heard nothing regarding it, I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see A330-200s - the ideal A300 replacement - joining the fleet before the 787-9s. AA needs an A300 replacement that can perform short/medium haul flights with significant cargo carrying capabilities in a dense 250-270 seat 2-class layout. Many of the A300 routes will be seeing a mix of 757s, 738s, and 763s starting in 2009, but that is only a temporary solution. The A330-200 can do that better than anything from Boeing, and AA isn't going to some false assumption that there should be loyalty to Boeing get in the way of that fact.
Oct 16, 2008, 8:22 am
#78
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Yes, there is a "gentleman's agreement" between AA and Boeing. Back in the 90's, Boeing and AA (and CO, too) tried to sign exclusive agreements with Boeing. Airbus complained and threatened to sue and the exclusivity was removed from the contracts. But there was still a "wink and a nod".
That being said, AA is totally free to order aircraft from any company and are not legally bound in any way. If Airbus came up with a deal that AA couldn't refuse, then it might be the MD-80 deal all over again.
That being said, AA is totally free to order aircraft from any company and are not legally bound in any way. If Airbus came up with a deal that AA couldn't refuse, then it might be the MD-80 deal all over again.
It's not just a "gentleman's agreement," it's a valid contract between AA and Boeing. The only part of the 20 year agreement that was invalidated by the Europeans was the pledge of exclusivity by AA. As you pointed out, AA is free to order airplanes from Airbus.
Despite the postings of the uninformed, AA has a valid agreement it can enforce against Boeing containing, inter alia, favorable terms on pricing and delivery positions. Yesterday, some Dingus asked how AA got such early 787 delivery slots:
Kevin Crissey - UBS
How did you get the 787 slots so early? Was it your relationship or was it that someone canceled?
Thomas W. Horton
We’ve been saying for a long time that by virtue of our long-term agreement with Boeing we have access to the 787s. This is just manifestation of what we’ve been saying.
How did you get the 787 slots so early? Was it your relationship or was it that someone canceled?
Thomas W. Horton
We’ve been saying for a long time that by virtue of our long-term agreement with Boeing we have access to the 787s. This is just manifestation of what we’ve been saying.
Oct 16, 2008, 8:43 am
#79
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Here is the reference to AA's current "preferred provider" agreement with Boeing in today's Seattle Times:
"For most customers, Boeing asserts the Dreamliner is sold out beyond 2016. American was able to secure deliveries as soon as 2012 because of a long-term agreement with Boeing that provides preferential delivery slots.
That agreement, signed in 1996, initially was exclusive. American identified Boeing as its "preferred provider" and signed up for purchase rights of more than 600 jets over two decades."
Oct 16, 2008, 10:52 am
#80
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Great news, hope they'll add more flights out to Asia from LAX and more flights to Europe from these birds. My suggestions:
Tapping in the fashionista & Cannes/Hollywood market:
LAX-CDG ^
LAX-FCO ^
Catch up against UA and NW in routes to Asia from West Coast:
LAX-KIX ^^
LAX-ICN ^
LAX-PEK ^
LAX-TPE
LAX-HKG ^
LAX-BKK ^
LAX-SIN ^
LAX-MNL
Other hopefuls:
JFK/ORD-DXB ^^
JFK/ORD-ATH ^^
JFK/ORD-PRG ^
JFK/ORD-CAI
DFW-SYD
DFW-HKG ^
DFW-FCO ^
Tapping in the fashionista & Cannes/Hollywood market:
LAX-CDG ^
LAX-FCO ^
Catch up against UA and NW in routes to Asia from West Coast:
LAX-KIX ^^
LAX-ICN ^
LAX-PEK ^
LAX-TPE
LAX-HKG ^
LAX-BKK ^
LAX-SIN ^
LAX-MNL
Other hopefuls:
JFK/ORD-DXB ^^
JFK/ORD-ATH ^^
JFK/ORD-PRG ^
JFK/ORD-CAI
DFW-SYD
DFW-HKG ^
DFW-FCO ^
LAX-HKG has direct competition with CX.
Oct 16, 2008, 1:31 pm
#81
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Yup and Yup. Although AA did exercise options to purchase more A300's either right before or about the same time that they struck that deal with Boeing. If Boeing had something that could legitimately replace the A300 (the 767 doesn't count because it can't carry the cargo), Boeing would have every right to be pissed, since they don't offer a competitor, they don't have a right to complain.
Oct 16, 2008, 1:54 pm
#82
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Which "deal with Boeing" are you referencing above? AA purchased 35 AB6s from Airbus which were delivered between 1988 and 1993.
The DC-9-80 deal was several years prior to that. The 20 year "exclusive" deal with Boeing was reached in late 1996, long after all AB6s ordered by AA had been delivered.
Oct 16, 2008, 4:54 pm
#83
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Oct 16, 2008, 5:37 pm
#84
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I could see maybe ORD-TLV, LAX-HKG, and *maybe* LAX-EZE. Other than that, I don't think those other predictions are grounded in reality. AA isn't going to open whimsical new routes because they now have an aircraft that can do them.
Oct 16, 2008, 9:23 pm
#85
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MIA-TLV would happen well before ORD-TLV ever launched. The O&D market is more than 6x larger and Tel Aviv's fourth busiest long-haul market.
Oct 16, 2008, 11:17 pm
#87
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Yes, that's correct. LY has been discontinuation due to high cost of fuel. Someday in the future LY will expected returns to MIA. If the fuel price will going down sometimes in between 2009 or 2010.
Oct 17, 2008, 1:43 am
#88
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Which "deal with Boeing" are you referencing above? AA purchased 35 AB6s from Airbus which were delivered between 1988 and 1993.
The DC-9-80 deal was several years prior to that. The 20 year "exclusive" deal with Boeing was reached in late 1996, long after all AB6s ordered by AA had been delivered.
Oct 17, 2008, 1:51 am
#89
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And AA has direct competition with JL on LAX-NRT and with BA on LAX-LHR. I fail to see your point.
I do however, suggest that AA really look into flying into far more destinations in Europe and Asia without the hassle of us going through LHR. For example, direct flights to such destinations as ATH, PRG, ICN, and BKK would be very nice!
I do however, suggest that AA really look into flying into far more destinations in Europe and Asia without the hassle of us going through LHR. For example, direct flights to such destinations as ATH, PRG, ICN, and BKK would be very nice!
Oct 17, 2008, 2:56 am
#90
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El Al will be back at MIA, maybe sooner rather than later now that they are getting a 5th 747-400 next year and fuel is back at sub-$70.
They discontinued Chicago well before Miami; and Chicago didn't even operate non-stop to Tel Aviv.