TrojanHorse

So I don't misinterpret for heavens sake, please interpret the boldfaced above.. emphasis on the red highlighted phrase

vasantn

It means that exceptional parents are not the norm. I don't see where there is room for misinterpretation.

Blumie

Most parents (and I'm including myself in this) are not exceptional parents. And most parents are not terrible parents. There are some exceptional and some terrible parents, and a lot of good-but-not-exceptional and bad-but-not-terrible parents in between. (And, BTW, I think that those who are not themselves parents have no business judging the parenting skills of those who are.) But notwithstanding that, I'd say that, based on my observations, the vast majority of children on airplanes behave just fine. I think the problem that we're discussing in this thread is the exception, not the norm.

stbeeman

I tend to agree - we parents actually tend to swing between the two extremes (GOOD|BAD) on any given issue, any given day. But most of the kids I see on airplanes don't fall into "poorly behaved." Now, the 8th graders making the trip to DC in the spring/summer are a different story!

BTW - I understood TrojanHorse's Red Print too...

oklAAhoma

You can say that again.

SOBE ER DOC

So I stayed out of this as long as possible but I just can't resist. I suppose I'm a horrible person for choosing not to have children and not to tolerate the behavior of children who are out of control but I make no apologies for my stance.

First Class is a premium travel experience. Explain to me how it is premium to have children running up and down the aisles like a bunch of wild animals, playing the "up-with-the-seat, down-with-the-seat" game and continuously kicking the back of MY seat while the parents either ignore it or drink themselves to the point that they could care less if the child goes out and plays on the wing.

I live by the philosophy that if you will not discipline your child and your child is disrupting my life (beyond what is reasonable)...I will discipline your child. Typically (as worked on me when I was a child), one stern look can go a long way. If not a stern look then a "you need to stop that...now" is effective. If not, the discussion is had with the parent that they can sit in my seat and be disrupted while I sit in theirs. There are many times I have disciplined a child on an aircraft, often to the horror of the parents and the delight of the other pax and the FAs. Almost universally, it has worked. Children will get away with as much as you let them...much like adults.

If others disagree with me that's fine but...having a child IS a responsibility and it is YOUR responsibility to control YOUR child. If you cannot do that then don't bring YOUR child out of the house. Further, just because you can afford first class does not mean that you deserve to sit in first class. It is intended to be a premium experience and NO ONE is entitled to a premium experience based on money alone. It is earned. Maybe too many people have forgotten that. Reality shows seem to prove that fact.

If your child can behave like a lady or gentleman then they have the right to sit in first class (and this is a major change from my earlier beliefs that first class should be adults only). If they cannot conduct themselves in an appropriate manner then they have no right on the plane at all.

ferndale

I would agree with everything you said above, if you change the word child to person. I have met many, many more adults who had no manners, and should have been told to behave in first class ( or coach for that matter), than children, but it seems to be the children we always discuss on this board. Adults who grab the back of your seat, and jerk you backward when they get out of their chair, adults who drink too much and act stupid, adults who don't treat the airline crew with respect, etc, etc.

and to sobe er doc, I hope you remember to teach adults their manners and are not just picking on the kids.

brp

Exactly. Sorry to TrojanHorse if there was any chance of another possible meaning. I don't really think there is, but I would want to avoid any further misinterpretation of what's posted here.

Cheers.

Blumie

I think there's a lot more common ground in this thread than may be obvious on the surface. I don't think anyone participating in this discussion would disagree that:

-- parents are responsible for the behavior of their children; and

-- although people have different views on what constitutes acceptable behavior, behavior that clearly impacts others -- kicking of chairs, boisterous behavior, electronic games used with the volume set on full blast -- by any objective measure is unacceptable.

brp

Well, I must be a horrible person as well. My wife and I made the same decision, selfish though that may be. I'm also less tolerant of children's shenanigans (she's better about it than I am).

Sadly, I disagree with the last part I quoted. It used to be a premium experience, but it is no longer the case. Still, the misbehaving child has no place there,IMO. Nor does the misbehaving adult, as people have noted. However, as a percentage of those present, there are far more misbehaving kids than adults. (Consider that adults outnumber kids in F maybe 20:1 or 30:1. So saying that more adults, in absolute numbers, may misbehave is not as statistically significant as misbehavior on a percentage basis. There, kids win hands down.)

Cheers.

brp

Completely disagree here. We can judge by the results and behaviors allowed. If the kid is behaving like a banshee, running, screaming, kicking seats, and the parent completely ignores this behavior, then I can certainly make an assessment of the consideration of those parents toward others as evidenced in their parenting. Further, I have nieces and nephews and I see how their parents parent, and the results. No, I shouldn't (and don't) make assessments of how hard it may be to parent, but I can surely assess the effectiveness. And, I can unquestionably see the effort taken in public places to prevent such behavior.

Cheers.

SOBE ER DOC

You are absolutely right.

Last month I was flying DL and seated in F. Many of DLs transcon 757s have seatback AVOD. As a component of that there are games that are operated by the touchscreen. The gentleman sitting behind me was a bit tipsy was getting rather "aggressive" with his game. As I was not interested in feeling someone pecking at my back for four hours, I kindly asked him if he could press the screen more lightly.

You would have thought I called his mother a (insert inappropriate phrase here).

My solution was to offer to switch seats with him and use the screen in the manner he was so he could experience what it felt like (he was in the last row in F and thus was immune from the joy I was experiencing). With that, he got the point.

People who are well traveled internationally can certainly appreciate the differences in the behavior of adults and children in other cultures. We may be the wealthiest country but we are far, far from the most civilized. It becomes so easy to play "spot the Americans" when traveling, but I'll save that for another thread.

technique

lol @ "little skymonsters" That's great... I'm gonna use that one of these days! ^

TrojanHorse

as Vasantn said it was how I interpreted it.. but to me the norm would mean the majority.. so you are saying that the majority of parents out there are not exceptional pareantes???? that I would not only disagree with but say you are not even close to being correct.. I would say that most (majority of parents) are exceptional in raising their children. Not perfect but exceptional does not require perfect

brp

Cool, then we are on the same page with what I mean. And, yes, I do mean what I said. So, we'll just have to respectfully disagree on that point

Cheers.