Comparison: 777-200 vs. 767 as Int'l. Business Class Definitive Thread (consolidated)
Jan 25, 2007, 1:04 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BOS, Latin America
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 712
Comparison: 777-200 vs. 767 as Int'l. Business Class Definitive Thread (consolidated)
Hoping to leave my lasting impression on FT, I thought I'd give a thorough evaluation of 777 business class versus 763 business class (old-J) on AA. I have flown in J on both the 777 (JFK-EZE) and the 763 (EZE-DFW) in the space of the past four days, and here is my comparison:
Boarding Process. The boarding process on the 763 is leagues easier than the 777. This is simply because the 763 has less seats and therefore less commotion as people try to find space for their luggage and their place. Advantage: 763
Seats. The seats on the 777 are certainly a bit wider than the 763, but this is the only positive element of the 777 seats in comparison to those of the 763. I am certain that the 763 seat reclines further than the 777 and I also found that the footrest on the 763 reaches a higher level than the 777. Moreover, there are no middle seats on the 763. I was in an inner aisle seat on the 777, and felt a little more crampted because of the person in the middle seat beside me. I slept far better in the 763 seat than the 777 seat. Advantage: 763
Meals. The entrees on the 777 are equal to the entrees on the 763, but that is where the similarities stop. The menu on the 763 includes a refreshing opener of smoked salmon and shrimp whereas the 777 menu skips right to the salad. As many of you already know, the 777 dessert is the same crummy sundae that you get on a domestic flight (pre-prepared) whereas the 763 includes a made-to-order sundae. Advantage: 763
Entertainment. Personally, I am a huge fan of the map showing the location of the plane and other useful data about the flight. For that reason, I prefer the 777 in-seat entertainment system over the 763 DVD-based offering. Although I like the selection and on-demand nature of the 763 system, I am partial to the flight map. Advantage: 777
Service. The 763 takes the cake here -- no question whatsoever. The 777 service is cart based and feels rather Y-esque. There are just so many people in the J cabin that the service inherently becomes impersonal and somewhat rushed. The 763 service, on the other hand, is more elegant (each course is hand served, with the exception of the salmon/shrimp plate and the sundae) and far more personal. It was also less rushed and truly felt like a five-course dinner. Advantage: 763
The conclusion of my experience is that the 763 is far superior to the 777. As a matter of fact, the discrepency is so great that I think AA has a slight product-consistency problem. Besides IFE, there is a huge gap between the 763 and the 777. Rather than degrading the quality of J on the 777 to differentiate it from F, I'd strongly suggest to AA that they incorporate many of the 763 food and service elements on the 777 and then work to make F different from J by making it better. Right now it seems that they differentiate J from F (besides the seat) by merely making J worse than it should/can be.
Boarding Process. The boarding process on the 763 is leagues easier than the 777. This is simply because the 763 has less seats and therefore less commotion as people try to find space for their luggage and their place. Advantage: 763
Seats. The seats on the 777 are certainly a bit wider than the 763, but this is the only positive element of the 777 seats in comparison to those of the 763. I am certain that the 763 seat reclines further than the 777 and I also found that the footrest on the 763 reaches a higher level than the 777. Moreover, there are no middle seats on the 763. I was in an inner aisle seat on the 777, and felt a little more crampted because of the person in the middle seat beside me. I slept far better in the 763 seat than the 777 seat. Advantage: 763
Meals. The entrees on the 777 are equal to the entrees on the 763, but that is where the similarities stop. The menu on the 763 includes a refreshing opener of smoked salmon and shrimp whereas the 777 menu skips right to the salad. As many of you already know, the 777 dessert is the same crummy sundae that you get on a domestic flight (pre-prepared) whereas the 763 includes a made-to-order sundae. Advantage: 763
Entertainment. Personally, I am a huge fan of the map showing the location of the plane and other useful data about the flight. For that reason, I prefer the 777 in-seat entertainment system over the 763 DVD-based offering. Although I like the selection and on-demand nature of the 763 system, I am partial to the flight map. Advantage: 777
Service. The 763 takes the cake here -- no question whatsoever. The 777 service is cart based and feels rather Y-esque. There are just so many people in the J cabin that the service inherently becomes impersonal and somewhat rushed. The 763 service, on the other hand, is more elegant (each course is hand served, with the exception of the salmon/shrimp plate and the sundae) and far more personal. It was also less rushed and truly felt like a five-course dinner. Advantage: 763
The conclusion of my experience is that the 763 is far superior to the 777. As a matter of fact, the discrepency is so great that I think AA has a slight product-consistency problem. Besides IFE, there is a huge gap between the 763 and the 777. Rather than degrading the quality of J on the 777 to differentiate it from F, I'd strongly suggest to AA that they incorporate many of the 763 food and service elements on the 777 and then work to make F different from J by making it better. Right now it seems that they differentiate J from F (besides the seat) by merely making J worse than it should/can be.
Jan 25, 2007, 1:51 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2004
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I know this will provide a lot of discussion on FT .. so lets start!
Boarding Process: 763 is bad because the coach pax DO NOT listen to the FA at the door who says 'go to the NEXT galley and cross over' ... so people in coach tramp across to get to the hi-letter seats anywhere they can find it on the 763 .. especially in front of ME! I really HATE this issue. On the 777 with 2L boarding, the pax on the other side can cross by the lavs and are already on the hi-letter side and do not cross in front of J pax. When this happens, I ask the Ypax for their seat number so I can come and walk on YOUR feet later. 763 is ruffer for Jpax on feet trampling .. 777 is easier.
Seats: I like the 777 lav location where everyone can get to a lav without crossing a galley or MY FEET. The 763 with NGBC will have a 'cross over' for the lav that will 'fix' this issue .. going thru the 763 galley requires 'approval' of the FA in my opinion (I always ask first). Since both a/c will eventually get NGBC .. this EVENTUALLY will change based on the final implementation of the seats in both A/C.
Meals: 763 meals in J are served (dished up) on plates. 777 meals in J are served in the same container they are heated in. While not scientific, 763 meals seem larger and the menu variety is a it better. 777 meals MAY have an appetizer course (not skip right to salad) based on flight destination. LGW-DFW 777 had a nice starter (salmon and something with sauce) and NRT-DFW 777 has rolls/sushi (for example). The 763 with 30 J seats are served by a Purser, two FAs and a Galley FA (4 total) while the 777 with 35 J seats is served by two FAs and a Galley FA (three total)....one less FA for 5 more pax .. so IMHO service on the 763 is FAR better. Also, the breakfast service on 763 is a bit more 'relaxed' vs 'dump from the cart'. A GREAT deal depends on the A/C routing for 763 service...DFW-LGW 763 had preset 'trays' with salad/starter while ORD-FRA 763 had hand-setup with laydown of the two trayclothes and presentation of silverware and bread plate by hand (ala First style).
Entertainment: Will become less of an issue with the NGBC seats when rolled out. The newer 763s also have the video map feature.
Personal preference .. 763 hands down. I wish AA would add a FA to the 777 J service for plated food and more personal service. Trouble is a 763 cannot do DFW-NRT so we are forced into the 777s!
Other's comments may vary!
Boarding Process: 763 is bad because the coach pax DO NOT listen to the FA at the door who says 'go to the NEXT galley and cross over' ... so people in coach tramp across to get to the hi-letter seats anywhere they can find it on the 763 .. especially in front of ME! I really HATE this issue. On the 777 with 2L boarding, the pax on the other side can cross by the lavs and are already on the hi-letter side and do not cross in front of J pax. When this happens, I ask the Ypax for their seat number so I can come and walk on YOUR feet later. 763 is ruffer for Jpax on feet trampling .. 777 is easier.
Seats: I like the 777 lav location where everyone can get to a lav without crossing a galley or MY FEET. The 763 with NGBC will have a 'cross over' for the lav that will 'fix' this issue .. going thru the 763 galley requires 'approval' of the FA in my opinion (I always ask first). Since both a/c will eventually get NGBC .. this EVENTUALLY will change based on the final implementation of the seats in both A/C.
Meals: 763 meals in J are served (dished up) on plates. 777 meals in J are served in the same container they are heated in. While not scientific, 763 meals seem larger and the menu variety is a it better. 777 meals MAY have an appetizer course (not skip right to salad) based on flight destination. LGW-DFW 777 had a nice starter (salmon and something with sauce) and NRT-DFW 777 has rolls/sushi (for example). The 763 with 30 J seats are served by a Purser, two FAs and a Galley FA (4 total) while the 777 with 35 J seats is served by two FAs and a Galley FA (three total)....one less FA for 5 more pax .. so IMHO service on the 763 is FAR better. Also, the breakfast service on 763 is a bit more 'relaxed' vs 'dump from the cart'. A GREAT deal depends on the A/C routing for 763 service...DFW-LGW 763 had preset 'trays' with salad/starter while ORD-FRA 763 had hand-setup with laydown of the two trayclothes and presentation of silverware and bread plate by hand (ala First style).
Entertainment: Will become less of an issue with the NGBC seats when rolled out. The newer 763s also have the video map feature.
Personal preference .. 763 hands down. I wish AA would add a FA to the 777 J service for plated food and more personal service. Trouble is a 763 cannot do DFW-NRT so we are forced into the 777s!
Other's comments may vary!
Jan 25, 2007, 1:53 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Excellent summary.
AA improved the 763 J service by incorporating certain elements of the F service in 2003 when AA removed F seats from the 763s. Certainly can't object to that decision. Problem was, the nickel and dime degradation of 777 J service began about the same time (pre-made crappy sundaes, etc.). Until 2003, 777 J service was pretty decent. Certainly was the same as found on 763s in J.
I agree with you, though. AA needs to improve its F service dramatically and then improve its J service as well. The duvets and new J seats (on the 763s for now) are a very small step in that direction. If AA's finances continue to recover, I suspect we'll see some improvements.
AA improved the 763 J service by incorporating certain elements of the F service in 2003 when AA removed F seats from the 763s. Certainly can't object to that decision. Problem was, the nickel and dime degradation of 777 J service began about the same time (pre-made crappy sundaes, etc.). Until 2003, 777 J service was pretty decent. Certainly was the same as found on 763s in J.
I agree with you, though. AA needs to improve its F service dramatically and then improve its J service as well. The duvets and new J seats (on the 763s for now) are a very small step in that direction. If AA's finances continue to recover, I suspect we'll see some improvements.
Jan 25, 2007, 2:12 pm
#4
Join Date: Aug 2004
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this is good to know.. unfortunately I just booked the wife on a 777 thinking it was a newer plane with better features... clearly not the case based on these posts...
thank you
thank you
Jan 25, 2007, 3:42 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2006
Programs: Aadvantage, United Mileage plus
Posts: 8
Thanks so much for this discussion. I'm only a gold member and don't want to use miles for my next European trip, so I'm paying actual cash for a ticket! I had been trying to decide the airplane and route I wanted to use and I was about to make the same error between the 777 and the 763. Now, the only decision is whether to just use BA, and not have to settle for no class service on AA! BTW, what the heck is NGBC? Don't everybody laugh at the newbie!
Jan 25, 2007, 4:01 pm
#6
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Having just flown on the 763 2 days ago, I will echo the sentiments that the "enhanced" J service is better than on the 772, and IMO is a better use of VIPs if upgrading from Y. My breakdown...
Cabin - Preferred A/C
Y - 772
J - 763
F - 772
And you all should hope you fly with me sometime, because I pass on the appetizer all the time (see this thread for discussion on why that is).
Cabin - Preferred A/C
Y - 772
J - 763
F - 772
And you all should hope you fly with me sometime, because I pass on the appetizer all the time (see this thread for discussion on why that is).
Jan 25, 2007, 5:04 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP - 3MM
Posts: 166
Ditto on the 763 preference. What a wonderful "dilemma" that most folks would die for.
Jan 25, 2007, 5:13 pm
#8
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
Great information. I have taken the 767 MIA-RIO and DWF-EZE many times and I agree the service is great. I would be interested in your opinions about comparing the 777 and the 767 on a dometic flight like MIA-LAX or JFK-SFO where the 777 is sold as a 3 class trip. Is it better to go in the 777 J or in the 767 which on this domestic flight is branded as first.
Jan 25, 2007, 5:28 pm
#9
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SJC
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While overall I prefer the 767 service as well, I have to admit that if I'm travelling by myself I would chose the 777 every time, because the seat width is an issue -- it's not just the width of the seat (which is only 1.5" narrower) but the armrest is narrower as well. I'd say the "centerline pitch" (if you measure the distance from the center of one seat to the next) is probably 5" less on the 767. I find that I'm constantly rubbing elbows/arms with my seatmate (admittedly, I'm pretty broad across the shoulders). If it's my wife, great, if it's a stranger...I find I wouldn't want to do that so I end up contorting a bit.
Steve
Steve
Jan 25, 2007, 5:43 pm
#10
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 676
While overall I prefer the 767 service as well, I have to admit that if I'm travelling by myself I would chose the 777 every time, because the seat width is an issue -- it's not just the width of the seat (which is only 1.5" narrower) but the armrest is narrower as well. I'd say the "centerline pitch" (if you measure the distance from the center of one seat to the next) is probably 5" less on the 767. I find that I'm constantly rubbing elbows/arms with my seatmate (admittedly, I'm pretty broad across the shoulders). If it's my wife, great, if it's a stranger...I find I wouldn't want to do that so I end up contorting a bit.
Steve
Steve
Domestically, on shorter flights where I don't want to sleep, the IFE on the 777 in J is certainly very nice---but if they upgrade the 763 IFE, I would still vote for the 763 F over 777 J.
Jan 25, 2007, 5:51 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Jan 25, 2007, 6:09 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Please! I am a newbie! What do NGBC and IFE stand for?
Jan 25, 2007, 6:39 pm
#13
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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Hi, mrsmoo - NGBC = "Next GenerationBusiness Class," American's moniker for the new business cabin in the 767-323ER, eventually to also be in the 777. "IFE" = In-Flight Entertainment.
As a newbie, welcome - but do check the sticky threads: the "Unofficial User's Guide" and new member's welcome post inthat thread. Many of your questions will be asnwered - links to information and threads, listing of tools for you (for example, in the "Help" menu, there is a link to a Glossary with such terms as "IFE.") Try it mrsmoo, and that's no bull.
As a newbie, welcome - but do check the sticky threads: the "Unofficial User's Guide" and new member's welcome post inthat thread. Many of your questions will be asnwered - links to information and threads, listing of tools for you (for example, in the "Help" menu, there is a link to a Glossary with such terms as "IFE.") Try it mrsmoo, and that's no bull.
Last edited by JDiver; May 8, 2007 at 4:27 pm Reason: fixx typoe
Jan 25, 2007, 6:40 pm
#14
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Jan 25, 2007, 7:49 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Is there any new information in this thread? Just asking.
Is any of this in the Wiki? If not, perhaps it would have been a better idea to put it there first, and then maybe a link in a forum thread?
Is any of this in the Wiki? If not, perhaps it would have been a better idea to put it there first, and then maybe a link in a forum thread?