LFBU: Non-elite, space-available, counter and kiosk upgrades (obsolete)
Dec 5, 2005, 7:09 pm
#91
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Originally Posted by acf573
Hey, speak for yourself lightweight! I personally make it a point to get my money's worth on every flight. All of the flight attendants are trained in first aid, so if you think about it, it's really the safest place possible to drink yourself into a stupor. 
BTW, JonNYC, thanks for the great info as always!
BTW, JonNYC, thanks for the great info as always!
Ok, let's assume that, on the high end, AA pays $1 for each of those little bottles of booze. Let's also assume that an AC is flying at 500 knots. So, in reality, you would be paying $50/hr for the privilege of sitting in F. Now, how many drinks could one consume in an hour before passing out, reasonably. I think that five, six tops would be it. So, including mixers, it costs them, at most, $10/hr to get you loaded. That's a lot less than the $50 you paid to sit there for the hour.
Dec 5, 2005, 7:10 pm
#92
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Originally Posted by acf573
Hey, speak for yourself lightweight! I personally make it a point to get my money's worth on every flight. All of the flight attendants are trained in first aid, so if you think about it, it's really the safest place possible to drink yourself into a stupor.
But yes, I agree that on average, AA will certainly make money on $50/500mi upgrades on a marginal basis. The question is what will this do to their paid revenue? Presumably that will decrease by a bit. Some people will decide to buy a Y ticket instead of an F ticket because the flight looks wide open. Some people will decide that going for Gold isn't worth it because LFBUs are generally available on their flights so they'll feel free to either fly less or buy cheaper tickets on alternative carriers. My feeling is that AA will probably come out ahead (though the implementation and training costs are not insignificant), but only time will tell.
BTW, JonNYC, thanks for the great info as always!
But yes, I agree that on average, AA will certainly make money on $50/500mi upgrades on a marginal basis. The question is what will this do to their paid revenue? Presumably that will decrease by a bit. Some people will decide to buy a Y ticket instead of an F ticket because the flight looks wide open. Some people will decide that going for Gold isn't worth it because LFBUs are generally available on their flights so they'll feel free to either fly less or buy cheaper tickets on alternative carriers. My feeling is that AA will probably come out ahead (though the implementation and training costs are not insignificant), but only time will tell.
BTW, JonNYC, thanks for the great info as always!
MDW-DFW anyone?
My mom flies this once a month and says they have decent loads, but almost nothing in F (I remember doing this route on the F-100s not too long ago...)
She would be a perfect example of someone deciding Gold isn't worth it because she doesn't travel too far.
(Although she's PLT since I had her on the challenge
)
Last edited by Mateo4321; Dec 5, 2005 at 7:12 pm Reason: sp.
Dec 5, 2005, 7:11 pm
#93
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I find most interesting that Hawaii is not included for this program.
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
Dec 5, 2005, 7:13 pm
#94
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Originally Posted by inlanikai
I find most interesting that Hawaii is not included for this program.
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
But you can usually get YUPs for about $1,200 on many of those routes. Why wait to gamble at the airport, when the cost would be similar just buying F?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:14 pm
#95
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
But you can usually get YUPs for about $1,200 on many of those routes. Why wait to gamble at the airport, when the cost would be similar just buying F?
Because most of the flying public is too ignorant to know any better
Dec 5, 2005, 7:16 pm
#96
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Originally Posted by inlanikai
I find most interesting that Hawaii is not included for this program.
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
Many times between HNL/DFW and HNL/ORD I have seen open seats in F in both directions. They have lot's of routes between the Mainland and Hawaii. You can't tell me they couldn't get some honeymooners, or the ones taking the vacation they always dreamed of, to spring for $500 - $1,000 for a "FC experience".
I hope its a technical and not a marketing/business reason to leave Hawaii off the list because its pretty dumb, IMHO, not to mine that route for some extrAA revenue
Dec 5, 2005, 7:16 pm
#97
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Originally Posted by Mateo4321
Because most of the flying public is too ignorant to know any better
You don't think a lot of them say to themselves "Ooh, just for fun, let's price this out in F" and then see that there are cheap YUPs?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:20 pm
#98
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
You don't think a lot of them say to themselves "Ooh, just for fun, let's price this out in F" and then see that there are cheap YUPs?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:28 pm
#99
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
Oooh, that -is- interesting-- I hadn't noticed that. I'm assuming it was definitely left off the list intentionally-- for whatever reason(s) they might have had.
Could it have to do with the numbers of elites redeaming awards on these routes? If elites think that they can redeam a Y award, and still sit in F, for a smaller cost, is it possible that too many of them would start doing this?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:29 pm
#100
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Honestly I don't. There are many pax in the Y cabin who have a tough enough time paying for a full vacation with Y travel that they would likely not bother looking up F fares. Add to this the pax who have bought a package where the default air tickets were booked into Y.
Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
You don't think a lot of them say to themselves "Ooh, just for fun, let's price this out in F" and then see that there are cheap YUPs?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:45 pm
#101
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My only argument against this (assuming that elite upgrades will still take precedence) is limiting this to kiosk check-in. There are many airports and routes where the kiosks cannot be used by some passengers, creating an uneven playing field. (For example, only US citizens can use the kiosks here in YYZ.)
Dec 5, 2005, 7:45 pm
#102
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
Could it have to do with the numbers of elites redeaming awards on these routes? If elites think that they can redeam a Y award, and still sit in F, for a smaller cost, is it possible that too many of them would start doing this?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:52 pm
#103
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Originally Posted by yyzflyer
My only argument against this (assuming that elite upgrades will still take precedence) is limiting this to kiosk check-in. There are many airports and routes where the kiosks cannot be used by some passengers, creating an uneven playing field. (For example, only US citizens can use the kiosks here in YYZ.)
I think they do this partly to encourage kiosk check-in. They want to have as many people as possible check themselves in, to save the agents for those who really need help with something, or are on itins that cannot use the kiosk. It is unfortunate for non-US citizens, but it fits with AA's (and other carriers') overall goall regarding check-in.
Dec 5, 2005, 7:55 pm
#104
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Originally Posted by CharlesMD
Asking me what 
???
IMHO it is ridiculous to try to speculate what AA is going to do and when as it has been shown in the past that even if the prediction is correct (and that's a big if), when AA makes the announcement actual implementation ends up being delayed due to lack of funds or difficulty in making the changes.
Even if this were going to happen, and I doubt it will, I'd think AA would at least have done a test run somewhere.
So I see no point in getting everyone here worked up.
???IMHO it is ridiculous to try to speculate what AA is going to do and when as it has been shown in the past that even if the prediction is correct (and that's a big if), when AA makes the announcement actual implementation ends up being delayed due to lack of funds or difficulty in making the changes.
Even if this were going to happen, and I doubt it will, I'd think AA would at least have done a test run somewhere.
So I see no point in getting everyone here worked up.
On October 19, 2005, James Beer (AMR's CFO) disclosed the development of a last-minute space-available upgrade program during the conference call to discuss the third quarter results. I posted the rumour right away. A lengthy thread developed to discuss this program.
A link to that earlier thread has already been posted.
The OP has posted the star file for this new program; I assumed (incorrectly, of course) that you would recognize the formatting as having come directly from AA. I certainly recognized it.
:shrug:
I'm betting that the Press Release reads substantially as the OP has posted. Any takers?
Dec 5, 2005, 7:57 pm
#105
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
Ok, let's assume that, on the high end, AA pays $1 for each of those little bottles of booze. Let's also assume that an AC is flying at 500 knots. So, in reality, you would be paying $50/hr for the privilege of sitting in F. Now, how many drinks could one consume in an hour before passing out, reasonably. I think that five, six tops would be it. So, including mixers, it costs them, at most, $10/hr to get you loaded. That's a lot less than the $50 you paid to sit there for the hour.