LFBU: Non-elite, space-available, counter and kiosk upgrades (obsolete)
Dec 5, 2005, 5:29 pm
#61
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
Well, that does remain to be seen. RM will be "looking at" the flight the night before-- and then the kiosks will do "additional checks" on check-in. Presumably by then some/many will already have their upgrades, the rest will be on the wait-list and some will have even checked in on-line.
SO, it seems-- IF AA is genuinely concerned that no elites by denied upgrades by this system, they have the technology, in principal, to prevent same, for the most part. How things actually fly is a different matter.
But they sound like they know what they are doing!
SO, it seems-- IF AA is genuinely concerned that no elites by denied upgrades by this system, they have the technology, in principal, to prevent same, for the most part. How things actually fly is a different matter.
But they sound like they know what they are doing!
When they say "they'll look the night before," do you think they assume that the vast majority of elites on solely domestic itins will check-in at 24hrs, in an effort to secure upgrades, thereby giving them a much, much better idea of how many seats they'll need?
Dec 5, 2005, 5:32 pm
#62
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
When they say "they'll look the night before," do you think they assume that the vast majority of elites on solely domestic itins will check-in at 24hrs, in an effort to secure upgrades, thereby giving them a much, much better idea of how many seats they'll need?
Dec 5, 2005, 5:33 pm
#63
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Originally Posted by chartreuse
That was my first thought, hence the 
at the end.
But then I got to thinking, which is always dangerous, and thought; what if one of the variables YM considers when holding back X on higher demand routes is that it encourages EXPs to choose lower demand routings? What if LFBU revenue exacerbated that?
I'm more than happy to concede that this sounds paranoid, but IME any attempt to fathom the workings of YM does.
at the end.But then I got to thinking, which is always dangerous, and thought; what if one of the variables YM considers when holding back X on higher demand routes is that it encourages EXPs to choose lower demand routings? What if LFBU revenue exacerbated that?
I'm more than happy to concede that this sounds paranoid, but IME any attempt to fathom the workings of YM does.
Here is my only problem with that logic: If you are EXP, you won't be trying to spend more time in the air. You will take the most convenient flights, period. (this assumes you are doing your flying for work, which I assume most EXPs are). If this is the case, then those EXPs will keep flying the high demand routes (they help make them the high demand routes), even if it means getting stuck in Y sometimes. I sincerely doubt that the average EXP will make his or her travel far more inconvenient (as switching routes often does) just for the sake of getting upgrades. This assumes we are talking about domestic non-transcons, where there is often one best route to take.
Dec 5, 2005, 5:38 pm
#64
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
Here is my only problem with that logic: If you are EXP, you won't be trying to spend more time in the air. You will take the most convenient flights, period. (this assumes you are doing your flying for work, which I assume most EXPs are). If this is the case, then those EXPs will keep flying the high demand routes (they help make them the high demand routes), even if it means getting stuck in Y sometimes. I sincerely doubt that the average EXP will make his or her travel far more inconvenient (as switching routes often does) just for the sake of getting upgrades. This assumes we are talking about domestic non-transcons, where there is often one best route to take.
Dec 5, 2005, 5:41 pm
#65
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
I do! I just got called "a hornets' nest"!
Dec 5, 2005, 5:47 pm
#66
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UA has been doing this for a while (at least a year) now, at $65 per 500 miles. Some have complained that this has taken the last available F seats over waitlisted elites using stickers, but it's hard to know for sure what happens all the time. (I searched without success for some relevant threads about such complaints) For UA, we also haven't seen anything like the policy detailed in the OP. Another difference is the space available upgrades for EXP's on AA, which is not the case for UA 1K's. (I realize the two airlines are doing slightly different things here, but thought it was worth noting that UA has been doing it.)
It sounds like AA probably won't anger elites (i.e. sell upgrades while elites remain waitlisted) too much if implemented in the way it seems to be laid out, but hard to say until we see it in action.
It sounds like AA probably won't anger elites (i.e. sell upgrades while elites remain waitlisted) too much if implemented in the way it seems to be laid out, but hard to say until we see it in action.
Dec 5, 2005, 5:48 pm
#67
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interaction with irregular operations
if a customer accepts the lfbu offer and subsequently experiences a flight cancellation, we should attempt to honor a premium cabin seat on the *protect* flight
So if I, EXP, get an ordinary AAdvantage 500-miler upgrade; and if once-a-year-flier buys an LFBU, and if our flight gets canceled (for whatever reason), then he'll be accommodated on the next flight in the front cabin, and I'll be in coach?
I would not be very happy if that happened TO ME.
Dec 5, 2005, 5:51 pm
#68
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Originally Posted by EdisonCarter
UA has been doing this for a while (at least a year) now, at $65 per 500 miles. Some have complained that this has taken the last available F seats over waitlisted elites using stickers, but it's hard to know for sure what happens all the time. (I searched without success for some relevant threads about such complaints) For UA, we also haven't seen anything like the policy detailed in the OP. Another difference is the space available upgrades for EXP's on AA, which is not the case for UA 1K's. (I realize the two airlines are doing slightly different things here, but thought it was worth noting that UA has been doing it.)
It sounds like AA probably won't anger elites (i.e. sell upgrades while elites remain waitlisted) too much if implemented in the way it seems to be laid out, but hard to say until we see it in action.
It sounds like AA probably won't anger elites (i.e. sell upgrades while elites remain waitlisted) too much if implemented in the way it seems to be laid out, but hard to say until we see it in action.
Dec 5, 2005, 5:53 pm
#69
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Originally Posted by bedelman
That's a benefit not offered to elite pax using AAdvantage upgrades, right?
Dec 5, 2005, 5:57 pm
#70
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
I'm surprised UA does this and no one brought it up (although at two other carriers were mentioned)-- I certainly had no idea UA did it already. Interesting, thanks for the info. I have to find those threads where this was discussed here when it first come out.
It's one of the reasons I don't fly UA. There have been enough reports of upgrades being sold while people with stickers/miles/systemwides were on the list and ultimately seated in steerage while the King or Queen for a Day got to ride up front to make me believe that at least there is some credibility to this happening.
Carriers that already sell upgrades on a space-available basis:
DL (SBUP)
UA
HP
?
Dec 5, 2005, 5:59 pm
#71
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Originally Posted by CharlesMD
No but I think occasionally someone has got to say the Emperor has no clothes.
If this news is incorrect, well we've seen that before. If it turns out to be true, then that's fine as well. But I think it's important to wait until AA makes an official announcement about changes to upgrade procedures and how it will affect elites.
If this news is incorrect, well we've seen that before. If it turns out to be true, then that's fine as well. But I think it's important to wait until AA makes an official announcement about changes to upgrade procedures and how it will affect elites.
The OP tends to be usually dead on with information posted prior to official announcement from AA.
Last edited by askworldtraveler; Dec 5, 2005 at 6:14 pm Reason: Personal
Dec 5, 2005, 5:59 pm
#72
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Originally Posted by bedelman
That's a benefit not offered to elite pax using AAdvantage upgrades, right?
Dec 5, 2005, 5:59 pm
#73
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Originally Posted by bedelman
That's a benefit not offered to elite pax using AAdvantage upgrades, right?
So if I, EXP, get an ordinary AAdvantage 500-miler upgrade; and if once-a-year-flier buys an LFBU, and if our flight gets canceled (for whatever reason), then he'll be accommodated on the next flight in the front cabin, and I'll be in coach?
I would not be very happy if that happened TO ME.
So if I, EXP, get an ordinary AAdvantage 500-miler upgrade; and if once-a-year-flier buys an LFBU, and if our flight gets canceled (for whatever reason), then he'll be accommodated on the next flight in the front cabin, and I'll be in coach?
I would not be very happy if that happened TO ME.
Not true. They do that for elites on 500mi upgrades too.
From the PLT guide: "In the event of a cancellation or off-schedule operation, American Airlines will attempt to honor your upgrade on another of its flights. If you are accommodated on another carrier, it will be in the same class of service as purchased on your American Airlines ticket."
So they basically do the same thing for the elites and non-elites. Not sure who has priority, I'm assuming elites, but you know what they say about assume. . .
Dec 5, 2005, 6:00 pm
#74
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Originally Posted by Spiff
I mentioned it in the pre-pre-speculation thread on this matter.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484173
Dec 5, 2005, 6:01 pm
#75
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way
Not true. They do that for elites on 500mi upgrades too.
From the PLT guide: "In the event of a cancellation or off-schedule operation, American Airlines will attempt to honor your upgrade on another of its flights. If you are accommodated on another carrier, it will be in the same class of service as purchased on your American Airlines ticket."
So they basically do the same thing for the elites and non-elites. Not sure who has priority, I'm assuming elites, but you know what they say about assume. . .
From the PLT guide: "In the event of a cancellation or off-schedule operation, American Airlines will attempt to honor your upgrade on another of its flights. If you are accommodated on another carrier, it will be in the same class of service as purchased on your American Airlines ticket."
So they basically do the same thing for the elites and non-elites. Not sure who has priority, I'm assuming elites, but you know what they say about assume. . .
When *protect* is used, it means something very specific.