no more 737-800 in Boston and more reductions

 
Old Jun 5, 05, 11:57 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,630
no more 737-800 in Boston and more reductions

As of Feb 03 2006 AA will remove all 737-800's from BOS. Replaced by either 757 or MD80's. Also no winter FLL, PBI and 2x MCO this year due to B6 (competition) . LAX also just reduced from 5 to 4 a day. Look for furher reduction on LAX and SFO when Song starts flying in September. Maybe next summer CDG will be single class 757 if flown at all.
Look for LHR downgrade to 767-300 so they can move 777-200ER to more lucrative/longer routes. At one time BOS had over 60 per day main line flights. Currently down to about 45.
zman is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 12:39 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Gold (finally back), on way to Plat
Posts: 12,391
Alas, the sad and bad news has been discussed before. Wherever B6 decides to tackle AA, AA ducks for cover and begins retreating. Its like WN's assault on US, but not quite as drastic.
CApreppie is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 12:56 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: OMA
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 112
This unnecessary retreating of AA when B6 enters a market as seen in BOS and SJC will certainly lead to the end of AA if this trend continues. I am still loyal to AA, so I would hate to see it cease to exist because of these stupid Arpey decisions. AA needs to figure out a way to compete head to head with the LCCs instead of just allowing them to bully it around and take over.
Silverman is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 8:14 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Programs: AA EXP & 3MM, SPG GLD
Posts: 1,215
Talking

1) Feb 2006 is a little far out to confirm services such as FLL, PBI are being discontinued. However, AA made is clear in the past that it's focus will be on growing and building their MIA hub while reducing flights into those S. FL cities where low cost competition is rampant.

2) Look for AA to start reducing more of it's BOS frequencies as JFK starts reving up operations with opening of new terminal.

3) In additon, the 738s are based out of MIA and MIA IS EXPANDING. Those 738s will likely be used on new MIA routes this winter.

4) It's about MAKING MONEY at this point. Why use planes on a flight to protect your market share of population that is willing to pay $99 one-way on a transcon route? It's a balance for AA, they will adjust premium capacity as they see fit, and yield some of the low fares to others.

5) If you wanna see AA fight, get ready for "Shock and Awe" if/when B6 decides to go into MIA ..... you ain't seen nothing yet

Last edited by crAAzy; Jun 6, 05 at 8:25 am
crAAzy is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 8:27 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL PLT; EK SLV; VX GLD; HHonors DIAM; SPG Platinum
Posts: 4,043
What's sad about this is that it was all so preventable. AA has sealed its own doom by racing to the bottom in terms of in-flight main cabin service while still maintaining a relatively high cost structure.

The high cost/low service model isn't sustainable and will result in AA's slow death as more nimble competitors such as B6 are able to devour route after route. It used to be that the LCCs just offered lower cost... thanks to Arpey, they now have an additional competitive weapon, better service.

Although AA can't figure out how to get out of its own way and make money at these lower fares, plenty of other carriers can. While this has been the case for a long time, it used to be that AA had a much larger balance sheet, and could simply go in and crush these more innovative and efficient smaller competitors by temporarily flooding markets and lowering prices until the interlopers cried uncle and/or went into bankruptcy.

It no longer has this ability (to defend its turf with its balance sheet), so it is unclear how AA will be able to survive and prosper in the upcoming years.

Last edited by HKG_Flyer1; Jun 7, 05 at 1:16 pm
HKG_Flyer1 is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 12:31 pm
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC/BOS/MSY/AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 5MM; BA GLD
Posts: 15,463
Originally Posted by zman
As of Feb 03 2006 AA will remove all 737-800's from BOS. Replaced by either 757 or MD80's. Also no winter FLL, PBI and 2x MCO this year due to B6 (competition) . LAX also just reduced from 5 to 4 a day. Look for furher reduction on LAX and SFO when Song starts flying in September. Maybe next summer CDG will be single class 757 if flown at all.
Look for LHR downgrade to 767-300 so they can move 777-200ER to more lucrative/longer routes. At one time BOS had over 60 per day main line flights. Currently down to about 45.
Zman, are the future flight reductions and aircraft downgrades rumors or predictions, or do they come from sources you believe to be reliable?


Originally Posted by HKG_Flyer1
What's sad about this is that it was all so preventable.
How? Best I can tell (and I am not an accountant), the only ways to improve profitability are (1) to increase revenue while maintaining or reducing costs (or increasing revenue faster than costs increase), or (2) to reduce costs.

Some have argued that AA could demand higher fares -- and thus increase revenue -- if it maintained its premium service relative to the LCCs. But the market has proven over and over again that fares are the principal driver of airline ticket sales. The premium-price-for-a-premium-product model generally has not worked in the U.S. domestic airline industry.

So AA's only choice has been to reduce costs, which we all know it has been feverishly trying to do, often at the expense of service. How do you decrease costs of the magnitude that AA, probably correctly, believes that it needs to without impacting service?

Look, I certainly am not pleased with the reduction of service. I now route through JFK for most transcons, and if they pull the 777s from BOS-LHR service, I'll do the same for LHR flights. The airline has done all sorts of things we don't like, many of which we think are penny-wise-and-pound-foolish. But I'm not sure how all this was preventable.

Last edited by Blumie; Jun 6, 05 at 12:34 pm
Blumie is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 1:01 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: los angeles, calif.
Programs: AAdvantage PLAT
Posts: 7,054
Re: BOS-LHR/CDG

Boston-London is not going to switch to 763s, the 772s are safe. Boston-Paris, however, as mentioned, may become a 752 next year. Though also, Boston-Glasgow is looking likely.

Re: No more 738s

This is because the 738s are going to be moving to Miami for expanded international and domestic flying. Most Miami mainline flying will be becoming 738s over the next few months. It has to be done, and it also reduces maintence and crew costs.

Re: Less Eagle flights (no more BOS-PHL, RIC, ORF, etc.)

This was needed because of the major Eagle expansion taking place in Dallas and Miami.

Re: Florida flights

Very true. FLL/PBI are goners. MCO may be gone soon too. MIA will likely be getting a 7th daily, though.

Curious to see what happens when jetBlue announces Miami service early this fall. And from what I have heard, they aren't just planning "some JFK flights". They are planning pretty big. And can, because there is plenty of gate space for them, and they already have a crew base in Miami/Lauderdale, and a huge customer base. Of course, it is not going to lead to AA reducing MIA-BOS/JFK or anything such, since MIA is a hub, not a focus city. While AA has learned to retreat at focus cities like Boston and JFK, they are not about to do so at their hubs.

Last edited by MAH4546; Jun 6, 05 at 1:05 pm
MAH4546 is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 1:29 pm
  #8  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 954
Id be interested to know the validity of this information, especially the 763 replacing the 777 to LHR. That makes no sense at all for the following reason, AA has all 777 to LHR, putting in an odd aircraft for just BOS would end up costing more.
JohnnyUMF is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 5:01 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP-1MM, SPG Gld, HH Silver, Skymiles, Marriott Silver, Hyatt GP Plat , CO Peon, Hertz 5 Star
Posts: 1,370
Originally Posted by crAAzy
5) If you wanna see AA fight, get ready for "Shock and Awe" if/when B6 decides to go into MIA ..... you ain't seen nothing yet
You will see the same from AA if B6 or any discounter for that matter tries to come into either MIA or DFW. DL seemed pretty successful fighting off B6 in ATL.
chsb is offline  
Old Jun 6, 05, 8:06 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: los angeles, calif.
Programs: AAdvantage PLAT
Posts: 7,054
Originally Posted by chsb
You will see the same from AA if B6 or any discounter for that matter tries to come into either MIA or DFW. DL seemed pretty successful fighting off B6 in ATL.
Huge difference between Atlanta and South Florida. AA could possibly run jetBlue out of DFW. They wouldn't be able to move jetBlue out of Miami.
MAH4546 is offline  
Old Jun 7, 05, 1:13 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, HH Gold, IHG Spire, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 777
If AA wants to stay competitive, they need to upgrade those 757s. LAX-BOS wasn't too appealing already when the 738s flew the route.
EVA Air is offline  
Old Jun 7, 05, 2:11 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: AA EXP/mm, Travelholics Anonymous
Posts: 2,962
AA DID try fighting B6 on a bunch of routes before and totally got ***** slapped.

The company doesn't have infinite money so they have to pick a few especially important strategic battles and conceed a bunch of losses. Put planes where they make the most profit, especially precious 777s. I think B6 is a total nightmare for AA because they were really counting on way higher NYC profits when they poured a zillion dollars into terminal upgrades there. Miami would be nightmare squared. I am rooting for AA but this fight looks super grim to me. Well I guess I can't complain about some of the low fare matching.

Last edited by benoit; Jun 7, 05 at 2:15 am
benoit is offline  
Old Jun 7, 05, 11:14 am
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC/BOS/MSY/AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 5MM; BA GLD
Posts: 15,463
Originally Posted by EVA Air
If AA wants to stay competitive, they need to upgrade those 757s. LAX-BOS wasn't too appealing already when the 738s flew the route.
How is upgrading the 757 going to keep them competitive? The issue isn't the quality of the seats, the issue is B6, DL and HP selling seats on this route for lower fares.
Blumie is offline  
Old Jun 7, 05, 11:35 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maine
Programs: AA Plat, FI Silver, DL alumnus
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by MAH4546
Though also, Boston-Glasgow is looking likely.
Ooooh, I'm lovin' that . Is this going to be seasonal 757 service like BOS-MAN? Or can I hope for year round service?
mAAine_flyer is offline  
Old Jun 7, 05, 11:37 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maine
Programs: AA Plat, FI Silver, DL alumnus
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by JohnnyUMF
Id be interested to know the validity of this information, especially the 763 replacing the 777 to LHR.
I think you misread the post. MAH4546 said that BOS-LHR was staying on 772s.
mAAine_flyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread