CX, Qantas Open Jaw Award Question
Jun 23, 2004 | 8:58 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago, IL, AA-PLT
Posts: 158
CX, Qantas Open Jaw Award Question
I know that the new award structure did away with Sydney via HKG on CX. However, are we still able to redeem a biz open jaw award ORD-LAX-HKG inbound and SYD-LAX-ORD return and combine AA, CX, and Qantas?
Jun 23, 2004 | 9:26 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Missouri, AA Lifetime PLT
Posts: 927
You will have to use a Oneworld award since you will be arriving into and departing from 2 different award zones. The total miles traveled will be just over 17,000. Oneworld awards count the mileage from departure point to destination (i.e. ORD-HKG) regardless of where you connect along the way as long as the connection is less than 24 hours, otherwise it becomes a stopover and must be included in the mileage calculation. This particular case will be a Distance Zone 6 award as found on the Oneworld chart, allowing for 14,001 to 20,000 miles. The cost for this award will be:
Economy class: 100,000 miles
Business class: 130,000 miles
First class: 180,000 miles
Even if you want to make a stopover in LAX, it won't affect the award cost as the total mileage by adding in LAX still falls in the same 14,001 to 20,000 mile range. And oddly enough, the mileage SYD-ORD is exactly the same as SYD-LAX-ORD at 9232 based on the Great Circle path.
The business class award is certainly a good value, considering it's only a 30,000 mile premium over economy. Only problem you may have is finding award availability on the QF flights from SYD to LAX for premium cabins. This would be a fun trip.
Keep in mind that if you add in the HKG-SYD sector, your total cost for the award would only go up by 20,000 miles for economy and business and 50,000 miles for first class to 120/150/230 for the entire trip, based on 21,606 miles using ORD-HKG, HKG-SYD, SYD-ORD.
Economy class: 100,000 miles
Business class: 130,000 miles
First class: 180,000 miles
Even if you want to make a stopover in LAX, it won't affect the award cost as the total mileage by adding in LAX still falls in the same 14,001 to 20,000 mile range. And oddly enough, the mileage SYD-ORD is exactly the same as SYD-LAX-ORD at 9232 based on the Great Circle path.
The business class award is certainly a good value, considering it's only a 30,000 mile premium over economy. Only problem you may have is finding award availability on the QF flights from SYD to LAX for premium cabins. This would be a fun trip.
Keep in mind that if you add in the HKG-SYD sector, your total cost for the award would only go up by 20,000 miles for economy and business and 50,000 miles for first class to 120/150/230 for the entire trip, based on 21,606 miles using ORD-HKG, HKG-SYD, SYD-ORD.
Last edited by djcrooks; Jun 23, 2004 at 9:37 pm
Jun 24, 2004 | 1:02 am
#3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: AA Plat & LTG; QF LTG
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Isn't it interesting how the different OneWorld airlines calculate the distances differently for what was supposed to be a OneWorld consistent award. Qantas would calculate all the individual sectors plus the "ground" component HKG-SYD. They would calculate the total distance ORD-LAX-HKG-SYD-LAX-ORD as 22,818 miles.
Also note that the shortest distance ORD to HKG is to fly AA ORD-YVR and then CX YVR-HKG. This is 850 miles shorter than ORD-LAX-HKG.
Also note that the shortest distance ORD to HKG is to fly AA ORD-YVR and then CX YVR-HKG. This is 850 miles shorter than ORD-LAX-HKG.
Jun 24, 2004 | 3:23 am
#4
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by NM
Isn't it interesting how the different OneWorld airlines calculate the distances differently for what was supposed to be a OneWorld consistent award.
Jun 24, 2004 | 9:18 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 1999
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No, you do NOT have to use a Oneworld award. The All Partner Award rules state "Open jaws are allowed between regions/zones as long as the higher mileage award is used". So you can do this routing for 75,000 miles in economy, 125,000 miles for business, or 145,000 for first class.
Jun 24, 2004 | 9:28 am
#6
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I have been curious about this myself since I am working on building up enough miles to go to Australia. What are the rules for stopovers? how long, how many
ert
Is this possible? AUS-LAX-SYD stop SYD-AKL stop AKL-LAX-AUS
ert
Is this possible? AUS-LAX-SYD stop SYD-AKL stop AKL-LAX-AUS
Jun 24, 2004 | 10:45 am
#7
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Missouri, AA Lifetime PLT
Posts: 927
Originally Posted by JIMCHI
No, you do NOT have to use a Oneworld award. The All Partner Award rules state "Open jaws are allowed between regions/zones as long as the higher mileage award is used". So you can do this routing for 75,000 miles in economy, 125,000 miles for business, or 145,000 for first class.
"The airline awards require mileage region based on regions of travel and are designed for members traveling only between specific cities within specific regions such as between Chicago and Paris. The Oneworld multi-carrier awards require mileage based on the distance flown and are designed for members traveling either to multiple regions or to several different cities within a region."
Using the standard award and an open jaw for the OP's itinerary would save him 5000 miles in business class. Not so much, but there would be a sizeable difference with the economy and first awards.
Jun 24, 2004 | 11:14 am
#8
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by myefre
I have been curious about this myself since I am working on building up enough miles to go to Australia. What are the rules for stopovers? how long, how many
ert
Is this possible? AUS-LAX-SYD stop SYD-AKL stop AKL-LAX-AUS
ert
Is this possible? AUS-LAX-SYD stop SYD-AKL stop AKL-LAX-AUS
On an all-airline award you can have one stopover at your destination, plus one at your international gateway city. In your example, AKL is the international gateway from South West Pacific to North America.
You can also tweak the rule by using an open jaw. For example, if you wanted to go from AKL to MEL and stop there like a sensible person for a few days or perhaps a lifetime before going back to the US, you would ticket the award with no segment between AKL and MEL, and buy a one-way flight between the two. I just did almost exactly this with a routing BNA-xLAX-xSYD-MEL(stop) // BNE(stop)-xSYD-xLAX-BNA. The internal flight was A$145, about US$110.
Last edited by eamus; Jun 24, 2004 at 4:29 pm Reason: bloody woeful spelling
Jun 24, 2004 | 5:40 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Posts: 1,248
Small point, but to get this to work, you need to designate AKL your destination, and take a layover at SYD (international gateway).
Originally Posted by eamus
Yes.
On an all-airline award you can have one stopover at your destination, plus one at your international gateway city. In your example, AKL is the international gateway from South West Pacific to North America.
You can also tweak the rule by using an open jaw. For example, if you wanted to go from AKL to MEL and stop there like a sensible person for a few days or perhaps a lifetime before going back to the US, you would ticket the award with no segment between AKL and MEL, and buy a one-way flight between the two. I just did almost exactly this with a routing BNA-xLAX-xSYD-MEL(stop) // BNE(stop)-xSYD-xLAX-BNA. The internal flight was A$145, about US$110.
On an all-airline award you can have one stopover at your destination, plus one at your international gateway city. In your example, AKL is the international gateway from South West Pacific to North America.
You can also tweak the rule by using an open jaw. For example, if you wanted to go from AKL to MEL and stop there like a sensible person for a few days or perhaps a lifetime before going back to the US, you would ticket the award with no segment between AKL and MEL, and buy a one-way flight between the two. I just did almost exactly this with a routing BNA-xLAX-xSYD-MEL(stop) // BNE(stop)-xSYD-xLAX-BNA. The internal flight was A$145, about US$110.
Jun 25, 2004 | 12:26 am
#10
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I started looking around because I am also interested in going one day. On aa.com I found this:
Two points that stick for me is unlimited segments but it says you must travel on two other Oneworld airlines.
Originally Posted by AA=COM
When you're ready to redeem your miles for a travel award, oneworld brings you more options than ever. The oneworld awards are valid on American Airlines, Aer Lingus, British Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LanChile and Qantas Airways. The number of miles redeemed varies depending on the distance and class of service traveled. To determine the award for your travel plans, please call AAdvantage Reservations with your complete itinerary and one of our helpful service representatives will calculate the miles you are flying and advise you of the correct award to use.
Note: AAdvantage members cannot redeem AAdvantage miles for travel on British Airways transatlantic flights between Europe and the U.S. Likewise, British Airways Executive Club members cannot redeem Executive Club miles on AA's transatlantic flights between Europe and the U.S.
Valid: All eight oneworld carriers may be used on one award as long as the mileage maximum is not exceeded (see distance range). Travel must include at least two oneworld partners other than American Airlines or American Eagle.
Routing: Members may fly unlimited segments and may stop in each city once, but may not connect in the same city more than twice. Passengers may not stopover or connect in the city where travel originated.
oneworld Award Codes contain an "OW" for oneworld, the number of miles needed to claim the award (in thousands; for example 30 for 30,000 miles), and a letter code for class of service. For example OW30Y.
oneworld Awards
Distance Zone 1
Total Trip Miles = 0 to 1,500 Award Code
Economy Class OW30Y
Business Class OW60C
First Class OW80F
Distance Zone 2
Total Trip Miles = 1,501 - 4,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW35Y
Business Class OW75C
First Class OW100F
Distance Zone 3
Total Trip Miles = 4,001 - 9,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW60Y
Business Class OW80C
First Class OW100F
Distance Zone 4
Total Trip Miles = 9,001 - 10,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW70Y
Business Class OW90C
First Class OW120F
Return to Using Miles
Distance Zone 5
Total Trip Miles = 10,001 - 14,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW90Y
Business Class OW115C
First Class OW150F
Distance Zone 6
Total Trip Miles = 14,001 - 20,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW100Y
Business Class OW130C
First Class OW180F
Distance Zone 7
Total Trip Miles = 20,001 - 25,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW120Y
Business Class OW150C
First Class OW230F
Distance Zone 8
Total Trip Miles = 25,001 - 35,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW140Y
Business Class OW190C
First Class OW280F
Distance Zone 9
Total Trip Miles = 35,001 - 50,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW160Y
Business Class OW220C
First Class OW330F
Note: AAdvantage members cannot redeem AAdvantage miles for travel on British Airways transatlantic flights between Europe and the U.S. Likewise, British Airways Executive Club members cannot redeem Executive Club miles on AA's transatlantic flights between Europe and the U.S.
Valid: All eight oneworld carriers may be used on one award as long as the mileage maximum is not exceeded (see distance range). Travel must include at least two oneworld partners other than American Airlines or American Eagle.
Routing: Members may fly unlimited segments and may stop in each city once, but may not connect in the same city more than twice. Passengers may not stopover or connect in the city where travel originated.
oneworld Award Codes contain an "OW" for oneworld, the number of miles needed to claim the award (in thousands; for example 30 for 30,000 miles), and a letter code for class of service. For example OW30Y.
oneworld Awards
Distance Zone 1
Total Trip Miles = 0 to 1,500 Award Code
Economy Class OW30Y
Business Class OW60C
First Class OW80F
Distance Zone 2
Total Trip Miles = 1,501 - 4,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW35Y
Business Class OW75C
First Class OW100F
Distance Zone 3
Total Trip Miles = 4,001 - 9,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW60Y
Business Class OW80C
First Class OW100F
Distance Zone 4
Total Trip Miles = 9,001 - 10,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW70Y
Business Class OW90C
First Class OW120F
Return to Using Miles
Distance Zone 5
Total Trip Miles = 10,001 - 14,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW90Y
Business Class OW115C
First Class OW150F
Distance Zone 6
Total Trip Miles = 14,001 - 20,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW100Y
Business Class OW130C
First Class OW180F
Distance Zone 7
Total Trip Miles = 20,001 - 25,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW120Y
Business Class OW150C
First Class OW230F
Distance Zone 8
Total Trip Miles = 25,001 - 35,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW140Y
Business Class OW190C
First Class OW280F
Distance Zone 9
Total Trip Miles = 35,001 - 50,000 Award Code
Economy Class OW160Y
Business Class OW220C
First Class OW330F
Two points that stick for me is unlimited segments but it says you must travel on two other Oneworld airlines.
Jun 25, 2004 | 7:36 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by myefre
Two points that stick for me is unlimited segments but it says you must travel on two other Oneworld airlines.
Jun 25, 2004 | 8:54 am
#12
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So I could do this then:
AUS (3011'40"N 9740'12"W) NRT (3545'53"N 14023'11"E) 6537 mi
NRT (3545'53"N 14023'11"E) BNE (2723'03"S 15307'03"E) 4422 mi
BNE (2723'03"S 15307'03"E) SYD (3356'46"S 15110'38"E) 467 mi
SYD (3356'46"S 15110'38"E) PER (3156'25"S 11558'01"E) 2041 mi
PER (3156'25"S 11558'01"E) MEL (3740'24"S 14450'36"E) 1682 mi
MEL (3740'24"S 14450'36"E) WLG (4119'38"S 17448'19"E) 1613 mi
WLG (4119'38"S 17448'19"E) AKL (3700'29"S 17447'30"E) 298 mi
AKL (3700'29"S 17447'30"E) AUS (3011'40"N 9740'12"W) 7306 mi
Total: 24365 mi
for 150,000 miles in Business Class.
That would be cool, spend a few days in Tokyo. Then see different places in Australia and New Zealand. All on one award ticket. ^
AUS (3011'40"N 9740'12"W) NRT (3545'53"N 14023'11"E) 6537 mi
NRT (3545'53"N 14023'11"E) BNE (2723'03"S 15307'03"E) 4422 mi
BNE (2723'03"S 15307'03"E) SYD (3356'46"S 15110'38"E) 467 mi
SYD (3356'46"S 15110'38"E) PER (3156'25"S 11558'01"E) 2041 mi
PER (3156'25"S 11558'01"E) MEL (3740'24"S 14450'36"E) 1682 mi
MEL (3740'24"S 14450'36"E) WLG (4119'38"S 17448'19"E) 1613 mi
WLG (4119'38"S 17448'19"E) AKL (3700'29"S 17447'30"E) 298 mi
AKL (3700'29"S 17447'30"E) AUS (3011'40"N 9740'12"W) 7306 mi
Total: 24365 mi
for 150,000 miles in Business Class.
That would be cool, spend a few days in Tokyo. Then see different places in Australia and New Zealand. All on one award ticket. ^
Jun 26, 2004 | 8:10 am
#13
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
Sounds doable but you need to check what the connecting flight options are between your origin and destination cities. Be careful of transiting the same city more than twice - it's not allowed and that might cause you problems with the flights to, within and from Australia. Also, bear in mind that premium cabin availability on QF between the US & Aus/N.Z. is very limited. You might want to look at the option of using Lan Chile from SYD or AKL to SCL then getting back to AUS on AA via DFW (that is an awfully long way to go about it though).
Jun 26, 2004 | 9:53 am
#14
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Originally Posted by mgm
Sounds doable but you need to check what the connecting flight options are between your origin and destination cities. Be careful of transiting the same city more than twice - it's not allowed and that might cause you problems with the flights to, within and from Australia. Also, bear in mind that premium cabin availability on QF between the US & Aus/N.Z. is very limited. You might want to look at the option of using Lan Chile from SYD or AKL to SCL then getting back to AUS on AA via DFW (that is an awfully long way to go about it though).
Business Class should be a little easier than first though. Right. The only flight between US and downunder is coming back.
Jun 26, 2004 | 12:48 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
Originally Posted by myefre
Business Class should be a little easier than first though. Right. The only flight between US and downunder is coming back.
The good thing is that if you can't get on a direct QF flight you have a few other options, like using LA via SCL. Another option you could look at is going back to the U.S. via HKG on CX. So long as you are not stopping over the distance calculated will still be AKL-AUS.
The oneworld awards can be really great if you are prepared to a) spend a few more miles and b) don't mind trying out convoluted routings.
