Why the Hostility???
Jan 27, 2004, 7:37 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco
Programs: DL DM, 1MM AA PLT 2MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, and...Smiles Diamante
Posts: 2,783
I feel as if an underlying theme on the AA board is:
-know the rules, use the rules to your advantage, but don't **** with the rules.
-don't whine when your very liberal interpretation of the rules gets you in a bind. ("They wouldn't maintain my routing through XXX, YYY, ZZZ, and West Flapjaw, Missouri!")
-get rid of your unrealistic expectations. ("They wouldn't hold the plane for me even though 150 people were already on board! I can't believe I had to wait 2 hours for the next flight!")
Perhaps that's true on other boards too, but I think it's a little more prevalent on AA. I believe AA members are a little more defensive of AA and its policies because they, for the most part, have been "done right" by AA and its policies, and don't see why someone else should get away with subverting the system, or for that matter, why someone is whining when an AAgent is simply doing his/her job.
I agree that there are some people (self included, on a recent occasion) who pounce on posters who post their negative experiences on AA, but many of those people brought those negative experiences upon themselves by having unrealistic expectations, or attempting to "work the system" much more egregiously than the majority of the members on this board.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Jan 27, 2004).]
-know the rules, use the rules to your advantage, but don't **** with the rules.
-don't whine when your very liberal interpretation of the rules gets you in a bind. ("They wouldn't maintain my routing through XXX, YYY, ZZZ, and West Flapjaw, Missouri!")
-get rid of your unrealistic expectations. ("They wouldn't hold the plane for me even though 150 people were already on board! I can't believe I had to wait 2 hours for the next flight!")
Perhaps that's true on other boards too, but I think it's a little more prevalent on AA. I believe AA members are a little more defensive of AA and its policies because they, for the most part, have been "done right" by AA and its policies, and don't see why someone else should get away with subverting the system, or for that matter, why someone is whining when an AAgent is simply doing his/her job.
I agree that there are some people (self included, on a recent occasion) who pounce on posters who post their negative experiences on AA, but many of those people brought those negative experiences upon themselves by having unrealistic expectations, or attempting to "work the system" much more egregiously than the majority of the members on this board.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Jan 27, 2004).]
Jan 27, 2004, 8:58 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP / LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 35,389
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by venk:
There are only two types of posts that encounter knee-jerk hostility on a regular basis:
1. Those that criticize AA in any way
</font>
There are only two types of posts that encounter knee-jerk hostility on a regular basis:
1. Those that criticize AA in any way
</font>
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Vasant
Jan 27, 2004, 9:03 am
#18
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 818
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by snorkmaster:
I feel as if an underlying theme on the AA board is:</font>
I feel as if an underlying theme on the AA board is:</font>
[This message has been edited by AAlton (edited Jan 27, 2004).]
Jan 27, 2004, 9:17 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 801
Overall, a big thank you to the FT posters. The information I have gained not only from posting, but reading responses has helped in ways too numerous to mention. Most of the responses have pleasant and sometimes funny. But having lurked for several months before posting, I was hestitant because there are some posters who have the "I'm better and smarter than you" attitude. I don't worry about the curt and rude responses, I just hope I don't run into them anywhere!
Jan 27, 2004, 9:24 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: STL...Platinum thanks to FT!
Posts: 24
Just my 2 cents worth. As you can see I do not post regularly on FT. I find the information on this board extremely valuable and appreciate the advice from all of the experienced FTers. However, there is hostility expressed in some of these posts and for a newbie it's quite intimidating, even if you feel you might be able to contribute to the topic.
So, don't be surprised if the number of registrations grow, while participation in the forums declines or remains stagnate.
There are a lot of lurkers out there...
nabvol
So, don't be surprised if the number of registrations grow, while participation in the forums declines or remains stagnate.
There are a lot of lurkers out there...
nabvol
Jan 27, 2004, 2:36 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 385
Granted I am also a lightweight in terms of posts here or on knowledge on the ins and outs of AA or on flying in general, but I do believe that as someone who was raised properly, I do have some knowledge in the area of civility.
I just wanted to add my thoughts on the MR thread that some of the earlier posters had written about. I did read the thread completely (beginning to end) if not thoroughly. I do agree that the original poster was rather unreasonable and inconsistent in his arguments, although that wasn't entirely revealed in his opening post. He just made the mistake of trying to shore up his original point with less-than-sound argument.
With the exception of one of the respondants -- and we'll get to that one in a sec -- I don't think most of the replies given were unduly harsh or unwarranted, especially after the OP's repeated refusal to accept any degree of responsibility for his own circumstance.
Moreover, I don't think the OP would've gotten the responses that he got had he not started out the discussion with an attitude. If his tone in his original post had been: "Gee, I think I screwed up but AA wasn't very helpful", I think he might've gotten some more sympathy along with the clarifications. However, that's not how he came across. If you're going to engage in a conversation and take up a litigious attitude, exactly what do you expect in return?
Putting aside the OP's initial tone, I think the original RESPONDANT's belligerence was wholly uncalled for. Now this person, in response to several challenges to his originally posted response, gives as his rationale: "Hey, I'm entitled to my opinion."
This may be true. Everyone here is entitled to their own points of view. However, how and when you express those views is entirely within each person's control and perhaps some modicum of restraint might be called for in some instances...like this one. After all, the OP didn't ask for anyone's opinion on whether the practice of MR-ing was a worthwhile activity or not. This opinion was presented unsolicited, as unnecessary commentary on why the responder thought it was OK that the OP got what he got.
To present an opinion that MR-ing is a worthless exercise as unsolicited commentary on a web site which in large part caters to/is frequented by people who clearly have the opposing viewpoint is patently inflammatory and not designed for constructive engagement.
The funny thing is, I don't think the OP was all that offended that the first responder was denigrating MRs. He was miffed that the respondant would dismiss what he was doing as if it were just a mileage run. Since he had made important plans at one of his planned connections, it was only a MR by inference, not intention.
As to the level of civility on the AA forum, FlyerTalk as a whole, and on such public venues in general, I think that one has to be prepared for all types of responses, some possibly contrary or critical, when posting in these settings. If you're not open or prepared for anything but the most genial and agreeable responses, I would suggest that you confine your interactions to friends, family and pets. I think its perfectly valid for some of the more seasoned folks to gently prod some of the newbies to RTFM in some cases, but I think gently should be the operative word, provided the newbie isn't being a demanding jerk.
How's that for "fair and balanced?" Just like Fox News!
I just wanted to add my thoughts on the MR thread that some of the earlier posters had written about. I did read the thread completely (beginning to end) if not thoroughly. I do agree that the original poster was rather unreasonable and inconsistent in his arguments, although that wasn't entirely revealed in his opening post. He just made the mistake of trying to shore up his original point with less-than-sound argument.
With the exception of one of the respondants -- and we'll get to that one in a sec -- I don't think most of the replies given were unduly harsh or unwarranted, especially after the OP's repeated refusal to accept any degree of responsibility for his own circumstance.
Moreover, I don't think the OP would've gotten the responses that he got had he not started out the discussion with an attitude. If his tone in his original post had been: "Gee, I think I screwed up but AA wasn't very helpful", I think he might've gotten some more sympathy along with the clarifications. However, that's not how he came across. If you're going to engage in a conversation and take up a litigious attitude, exactly what do you expect in return?
Putting aside the OP's initial tone, I think the original RESPONDANT's belligerence was wholly uncalled for. Now this person, in response to several challenges to his originally posted response, gives as his rationale: "Hey, I'm entitled to my opinion."
This may be true. Everyone here is entitled to their own points of view. However, how and when you express those views is entirely within each person's control and perhaps some modicum of restraint might be called for in some instances...like this one. After all, the OP didn't ask for anyone's opinion on whether the practice of MR-ing was a worthwhile activity or not. This opinion was presented unsolicited, as unnecessary commentary on why the responder thought it was OK that the OP got what he got.
To present an opinion that MR-ing is a worthless exercise as unsolicited commentary on a web site which in large part caters to/is frequented by people who clearly have the opposing viewpoint is patently inflammatory and not designed for constructive engagement.
The funny thing is, I don't think the OP was all that offended that the first responder was denigrating MRs. He was miffed that the respondant would dismiss what he was doing as if it were just a mileage run. Since he had made important plans at one of his planned connections, it was only a MR by inference, not intention.
As to the level of civility on the AA forum, FlyerTalk as a whole, and on such public venues in general, I think that one has to be prepared for all types of responses, some possibly contrary or critical, when posting in these settings. If you're not open or prepared for anything but the most genial and agreeable responses, I would suggest that you confine your interactions to friends, family and pets. I think its perfectly valid for some of the more seasoned folks to gently prod some of the newbies to RTFM in some cases, but I think gently should be the operative word, provided the newbie isn't being a demanding jerk.
How's that for "fair and balanced?" Just like Fox News!
Jan 27, 2004, 3:13 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 818
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maisany:
As to the level of civility on the AA forum, FlyerTalk as a whole, and on such public venues in general, I think that one has to be prepared for all types of responses, some possibly contrary or critical, when posting in these settings. If you're not open or prepared for anything but the most genial and agreeable responses, I would suggest that you confine your interactions to friends, family and pets. I think its perfectly valid for some of the more seasoned folks to gently prod some of the newbies to RTFM in some cases, but I think gently should be the operative word, provided the newbie isn't being a demanding jerk.</font>
As to the level of civility on the AA forum, FlyerTalk as a whole, and on such public venues in general, I think that one has to be prepared for all types of responses, some possibly contrary or critical, when posting in these settings. If you're not open or prepared for anything but the most genial and agreeable responses, I would suggest that you confine your interactions to friends, family and pets. I think its perfectly valid for some of the more seasoned folks to gently prod some of the newbies to RTFM in some cases, but I think gently should be the operative word, provided the newbie isn't being a demanding jerk.</font>
[This message has been edited by AAlton (edited Jan 27, 2004).]
Jan 27, 2004, 3:34 pm
#23
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Syracuse, Boston, Athens
Posts: 995
I am not sure why some are surprised. You take a random group of people: some will be really nice, most will be just "OK", some will be nasty. And the nasty ones are more noticeable, it's normal. I don't see why this group here, of AA frequent fliers, should be any different. Or why those who are not nice would all of a sudden be transformed just because they are posting a message here.
Jan 27, 2004, 9:23 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
My take on this is that when a person asks a question or posts something interesting and of value then it is usually well received.
What is not received is the constant bashing of specific airlines or employees when what the flyer is trying to do is to manipulate all rules and routings to his benefit. The recent complaint here that AA was causing problems because his strange booking that AA was being so unreasonable because a mileage run booking for MSY-ORD-LAX-LAS in first became either MSY-ORD-LAS in first OR MSY-ORD-LAX-LAS in partial coach because of mechanical problems and and the changing of a flight. This person berated AA and demanded compensation for this changem, which is completely unreasonable and completely against the terms of his ticket fare rules. It is this type of attitude that pisses other readers off.
If the person would have simply asked if this is the way it is supposed to be rather than bash AA and its employees then it would have been well received. But when you go after the airline and its employees because you don't know the rules then that is simply not a good way to do business.
[This message has been edited by WebTraveler (edited Jan 27, 2004).]
What is not received is the constant bashing of specific airlines or employees when what the flyer is trying to do is to manipulate all rules and routings to his benefit. The recent complaint here that AA was causing problems because his strange booking that AA was being so unreasonable because a mileage run booking for MSY-ORD-LAX-LAS in first became either MSY-ORD-LAS in first OR MSY-ORD-LAX-LAS in partial coach because of mechanical problems and and the changing of a flight. This person berated AA and demanded compensation for this changem, which is completely unreasonable and completely against the terms of his ticket fare rules. It is this type of attitude that pisses other readers off.
If the person would have simply asked if this is the way it is supposed to be rather than bash AA and its employees then it would have been well received. But when you go after the airline and its employees because you don't know the rules then that is simply not a good way to do business.
[This message has been edited by WebTraveler (edited Jan 27, 2004).]