jordyn

This justifies a first class seat being quite cheap on one flight; it doesn't justify the seat being cheaper than an economy seat on that same flight.

As for whether AA can instantly change fares, that is simply an argument that their infrastructure makes certainly classes of errors in pricing more likely (or inevitable), not that these fares are a good idea as a matter of policy or economics. I'm not arguing that AA can necessarily do better given their current infrastructure, I'm just arguing that they would probably like to avoid the situation if they could. Sufficiently good computer systems could certainly contain a simple check to always offer coach at a small discount to the lowest available first class fare.

A couple of people have argued that they do this to take advantage of people who are forced to book into economy. This is possible, but: 1) since, as mentioned upthread, a lot of these "First" fares are really instant upgrade fares, they probably show up as a coach fare class in any case; and 2) this line of reasoning relies on this situation being more common than folks who could show that they were buying a cheaper fare in F and/or people who just look for reasonable value--I tend to think (with no real evidence) that the latter two categories are more common, but it's possible I'm wrong.

salesflyerguy

$1 is always better than $0.

It brings up an interesting point though. I've booked flights in economy on the company account but have seen first class seats for only $120-175 more on some flights. I can only book economy and expense it but if AA offered a way for me to pay for "instant upgrade" out of my own pocket then I would probably do this on every flight if I know I won't get upgraded based on my elite status. I've done this at the kiosk using the LFBU (I think that's it) and paid around $150 for it. That was pre-elite status for me. Doesn't seem like it's feasible on AA.com

wjj

This happens between business and first on international flights as well. A couple times this year I have been able to snag first on ORD-NRT which was less than business in our corporate contracted rate. Saved some SWUs. Also, sometimes the refundable fare drops below the non refundable fare - or gets very close. I will always grab a refundable fare if it is close to the non refundable fare since my travel plans get upended all the time. Makes changes far easier in a pinch. For example, ORD-NRT two weeks from now......refundable business was only $110 more than non refundable. The next day, a colleague booked it for only $72 more.

Another thing that I always check is to see if two one way fares ends up to be less than the round trip. Sometimes it is (I have no idea why). Or sometimes when you do two one ways, First is less than coach on one leg but you will not see that when booking round trip. So you would miss the opportunity to book into first and avoid the upgrade list.

I am sure there is an economic reason for these things to happen. Just not evident what it is. But in the meantime, I will take advantage when I can.

ccengct

I work for a company that is rabid about unauthorized F. Unfortunately the reports come from the corporate travel agent, and they are notorious for "false positives" on F. Anecdotes indicate that at least some of the time, an instant upgrade fare will, in fact, get marked as F in the report to the company. Fortunately that does not happen when using stickers or SWUs. It's a PITA to argue with the mad dog accountants, and a lot of us don't even bother to make an argument based on comparative F and Y prices.

Blumie

Also, some passengers, either by policy or because they truly need the flexibility, must purchase refundable tics.

jordyn

Yes, but they offer an easy a way to choose refundable tickets in the purchase flow so it should be simple to offer a refundable coach ticket for more than the restricted first class ticket and a non-refundable ticket for less.

salesflyerguy

That's why I think AA should offer business travelers to pay out of pocket for that instant upgrade. You can do it at the kiosk but not on AA.com or on the phone.

grrizzli

If I were an employer, I'd treat instant upgrade fares as first class tickets, since that's what they are. You're lucky your employer is not on FT.

makfan

They are and they aren't, since if your plans go sideways for any reason, you can easily find yourself in the Y seat that actually underlies the fare you bought.

makfan

Do you also have to argue about how that $20 lower fare on carrier X which contacts in DEN with a 4-hour layover is really more expensive than the AA fare that connects in DFW with a 90-minute layover, because I don't have to pay any bag fees if I fly AA? My current boss is very reasonable about these situations but I have observed others who aren't.

I certainly wish I could price coach and then pay the instant upgrade difference on my own card...I'd do it anytime the price makes sense.

hillrider

You certainly can do exactly that, just not on their website (it's still a very, very, very primitive engine).

Place a call after your purchase and AA will be happy to take your money!

hillrider

Many employers do just that: after being bamboozled by the airlines various "instant upgrade" fares, they change their policies to make them based on cabin purchased (i.e. the booking code), not on fare purchased (i.e. generally the first letter of the fare designator or some language in fare rule 50).

salesflyerguy

And charge you a $200 change fee in order get the "instant upgrade" over the phone?

AA_EXP09

Purchasing at the last minute would mean that the PAX is more likely to go, don't you think?
Especially if the ticket is more expensive.

hillrider

IIRC those are waived for same flights cabin upgrades (not documented in fare rules). They may stick you with the $25 telephone fee (if you're not EXP), am not sure about that one, but it doesn't hur to ask.