AA Overweight Passenger ("POS") Policy?
 

Also, on the way back I was seated next to a large man 350-400lbs. I was in the aisle he was in the middle. He was unable to put either arm rest down and literally had to lift his leg fat so that I could squeeze into my seat and then he let it go covering my left leg. I expected the flight attendant to ask him to switch with his young son who had plenty of space in the window seat, but they didn’t come up to me. Does anyone know what AA’s policy on overweight passengers?

====================MODERATOR NOTE==================

Due to the challenges presented by previous threads on this topic, this thread will be strictly moderated.

Be sure to read:

Post # 10, which quotes American Airlines' policy <link>, and

post #94 (more or less) linked to here, for the Customers Requiring Two Seats policy from the FAs manual, Customer Policies, Boarding - 3.5.

did you ask the fa or the man about switching?...i wouldn't expect a fa to act unless asked....should the situation reoccur, i would try for the window w/kid in middle...good luck...

Sorry to hear that. That's one of my worst nightmares. You just seem to be getting all the bad luck with your holiday travels.

Well I got home on time to make a friend’s memorial service which I was grateful for. I didn’t have the extra vacation time to cover mon-weds so I had to take unpaid leave, but I’m in sales so that was just my base salary. I also was staying at my parents so there were no hotel costs. In the long run 3 more days with the family and my long distance girlfriend was great. I could have done without the big guy though. I would have said something, but I had no idea of the policy and was worried that it may be considered a disability and a safety hazard in which case I could end up being the one losing my seat and having to wait a few more days to get home.

I wouldn't have accepted that seating arrangement. AA's own policies require one to be able to sit in the seat with the arm rests down. If he wasn't able to do that then he needed 2 seats... not 1 + 1/2 of yours.

Any idea where that is written? I assume it's something that they would have to tell customers beforehand.

I doubt that AA unlike maybe WN is really enforcing any policy. I've seen paxs waddle back to Y thinking a) no way that person is going to fit in a Y seat properly b) thank god I'm up in this F seat and do not need to worry about people's body parts overflowing onto me and c) someone (the pax next to them) is going to have a miserable flight.

The few times that I am in Y I do have a system. I take a couple of books and newspapers and wedge them in between the two seats along with a blanket that way no one's body fat will enter my personal space.

A legal-size clipboard works nicely.

Especially bad when one is on Eagle!

This question has been asked before.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...sengers-y.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...t-what-do.html

Nonetheless, here's AA's policy:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...false&from=Nav


Customers Requiring Extra Space

For the safety and comfort of all customers, we have aligned our seating accommodation policies with other major airlines regarding customers who may require more than one seat because they are:

* Unable to fit into a single seat in their ticketed cabin and/or
* Unable to properly buckle their seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender (available upon request from a flight attendant) and/or
* Unable to lower both armrests without encroaching upon the adjacent seating space or another customer.

Reservations

We encourage customers to address their seating needs when booking the original reservation. If you meet the above criteria, one of our Reservations representatives will ensure that you receive two adjacent seats at the same rate for each seat.

At the Airport

If you meet any of the above criteria and have not booked an extra seat in advance, please see an airport agent. If seats are available in your ticketed cabin, you may be accommodated in the same cabin next to an empty seat. The additional seating must be available without downgrading or unseating another customer. If time allows, and upon payment of the fare difference, you may be offered a seat in a higher class of service that may provide more space*.

If additional seating is not available, you may purchase a second adjacent seat on a different flight. The fare for the second seat will be the same as the original seat.

About time for another POS thread ... :rolleyes:

In before the lock!

you are far more patient than I would have been in that situation. When I get a POS seated next to me, I put the arm rest down (actually, I do that for everyone). If the arm rest won't go down, I call an FA to deal with the reseating.

So you don't think it's a legitimate complaint if someone is occupying part of your seat?

Thanks Triniflyguy. Thats what I was looking for.

Sorry I missed the previous searches. Thanks for not blowing up the post with "DAFS".

While it is a legitimate complaint, and as such probably also a legitimate topic for FT discussion, the historical fact is that threads on this topic tend to degenerate into personal comments with no constructive content. As a result, they tend to get locked. Perhaps this one will escape that fate, at least it's avoided lock-inducing posts this far, but the odds are against it.

If he really couldn't put either arm rest down, it seems like the obvious answer would be to ask him to scoot over towards his young son (who had plenty of space in the window seat) so you could put your arm rest down. What did he say when you asked him to do this?

OP didn't ask.

I think that was the point. OP didn't ask the guy to move over, and was "waiting" for the flight attendants to change things on their own initiative rather than bringing the matter to their attention. If you're determined to suffer in silence, don't be surprised if no one comes to your aid.

Isn't this something to be handled by the GA? Along with oversize carry-ons.

Pretty sure in this case POS meant Passenger of Size.

I.e. "Time for another Passenger of Size Thread" and not "Time for another piece of... threat."

Although I am sure all US based airlines have some defined policy on this, good luck getting them to actively enforce it as it is a sensitive issue in the US because there are simply millions of obese people and many of them fly on airplanes. Airlines do not view it is a solid customer service practice to single out obese people upon entering the plane and make a scene about how they cannot fit into their seat, will disturb other customers, etc. My guess is that any obese passenger who was called out in that fashion would certainly not give business to the airline in the future.

Your welcome ^

Not to drag this out, but I'm usually not the type to sit in silence. My fear was the AA after realizing the man was too big would consider it a safety hazard. I have no idea what the law says about “discriminating” against morbidly obese people, but I didn’t want to provoke the FA to start kicking people off a full plane. I had already been stuck in BOS for 3 days and didn’t want the FA’s fear of legal retaliation strand me for even longer. My hunch at the time which turned out to be correct is that he should have been required to purchase two seats and the GA and FA dropped the ball and did not follow protocol. Instead they left it up to me to be either very uncomfortable or to complain and get this family removed from the aircraft in front of everyone. The FA’s were also telling us we had 5 min to pull back or we were going to miss our runway slot and have to wait an hour. We ended up waiting the hour, but if I had complained the entire aircraft would have blamed me for the hour delay. I was stuck between a drink cart and a fat place.

"obesity" is not a protected class; illegal discrimination is not a factor here.


Few people in the service industry go out of their way to make more work for themselves. If the situation was uncomfortable to you, you should have said something rather than waiting for the GA or FA to do something. From their perspective, if no seatmates are complaining, there must be no problem, right ? Why delay the flight when there is no problem...

Well said!

Some posts have been deleted for dilatory content of being off topic (experiences on other airlines, experiences with loud people, derogatory or dismissive comments or words using to describe others, and all qualify for deletion as well as for TOS violation issues.

We understand this can be a problem and it is useful to discuss what has happened, the airline's responsibility, etc. but if this thread is to remain open, it should remain on topic, remain helpful and respectful of others, and take a higher road than previous threads that have required closure.

Thanks for your contributions and cooperation. If anyone has any doubts what the TOS that they agreed to adhere to when they were granted the privilege of posting on FlyerTalk, they can read the TOS / Rules here.

In other words, due to the challenges presented by previous threads on this topic, this thread will be strictly moderated.

JDiver, Moderator

After seeing the OP's other post about his miserable standby experience, I can understand why he didn't say anything. I seem to remember a case in an earlier POS thread where a passenger complained that he couldn't put his armrest down due to a very large seatmate, and the FA's response was along the lines of "either you take your seat or leave the plane." If it's a choice between flying uncomfortably or potentially being stuck in BOS for a 4th night, I'd probably choose to keep quiet as well.

The last time I flew Delta I returned from PFN in the front of a regional airplane (that boarded from the rear) therefore in the last boarding group since I had 0 status with them. The guy in the aisle seat next to me took up half of my seat (my guess is he was in excess of 400lbs). All the seat were occupied. My choices were complain and catch the next flight out over 2 hours later or just squeeze in. I chose the later, but have not flown Delta since and will not ever again.

At the time of the flight, the OP didn't know AA's policy regarding POS procedures. AA's POS policy seems pretty clear; if the armrests can't be lowered, the POS will be reseated, or placed on a later flight where they can purchase 2 seats. The pax next to the POS should not be the one inconvenienced.

I had a similar situation one time on a CRJ out of HOU. The guy needed a seatbelt extension and there was NO WAY the armrest was going down. The seatbelt extension didn't even fit and he asked for a second.

Thankfully, there was a seat open and the FA proactively moved me. I thought she was the nicest person...

Morbid obesity (and other obesity) can be caused be a medical condition and may be a disability -- hence the protected class. And ... its not a matter of discrimination. Those with a disability are entitled to be reasonably accommodated, not just protected from discrimination.

AA's policy is consistent with those obligations. We'll sit you next to an empty seat for free if we've got one. We'll sell you an upgrade if that works. Or we'll let you standby for the next flight (without the standby fee).

Incidentally ... sure seems like a lot of folks are flying with Fluffy the Service Dog lately. Get a doctors note, save on baggage fees, and Fluffy gets to ride with you. Just wondering who decides what trumps my allergy :)

In any event, FA and GA's have no interest in getting involved in this quagmire.

As I posted a long time ago...

The OP should have refused to try to sit down and instead asked to be reseated. If the FA found another seat for him/her, all would be well.

If not, then the GA or Customer Service Representative needs to be summoned because there's going to be a case of denied boarding. If the FA refuses to get the GA/CSR and tries to kick the OP off the flight, the OP is now IDB (see below). He/she should ask "Am I IDB?" because that's a statistic that is tracked by the FAA and most airlines try to avoid IDB whenever possible.

The GA/CSR should ask the POS to purchase a second ticket. If he/she does not, then he/she should be deplaned and accommodated on the next available flight.

If the POS agrees to pay for a second seat, the plane is now oversold as there are no longer enough seats for everyone. The GA/CSR must ask for a volunteer. If he/she gets one, then the OP gets that seat and then the volunteer receives VDB (Voluntary Denied Boarding) compensation according to AA's CoC (Contract of Carriage).

If no one volunteers, then the OP (or someone else) becomes IDB (Involuntarily Denied Boarding) where the compensation may be higher, in cash, and reaccommodation is on the next flight, American or not, and in whatever cabin is available (even J or F) at AA's expense.

None of these things will happen if the OP doesn't start with asking to be reseated. The FA/GA/CSR will not offer to go through the above. The OP or anyone else needs to be proactive and unwilling to fly in a fraction of a seat.

When it comes to POS, I rarely have a problem since I pretty much always fly J/F and the increased seat width and larger seat dividers lessen potential "overflow". However were I sitting in any cabin and seated next to someone who was encroaching on my space, I would certainly ask to be reseated in a comparable seat.

If seated in an exit row, I would also make the point that someone who couldn't fit completely in their seat would be unable to fit through the exit with ease, creating a safety hazard for all other pax.

I realize that the exit rows have immovable armrests, but given lipids' malleable nature, it's still possible to fit into the seat but have "overflow" above the armrests.

If the arm rests can be lowered, but they are still encroaching upon my space, are they still subject to this policy? That has happened to me several times.

Yes.

So when I was 22 and first started flying, before I knew anything about status or miles or FT or rules / regs, or frankly, had <redacted> to say anything, I sat in coach, middle seat form SFO - ORD. I was sandwiched by an obese couple. Each weighed no less than 300 lbs. They purposely, clearly, booked the aisle and window seat and I guess they lucked out since I'm a buck fifty or so. Terrible flight. Made EXP 6 months later, and ever since, thankfully, for the past 4 years, I haven't had to deal with that in F anymore. But even if I did have to deal with that, I know now how to.

With everything a GA has to do before flight, and often working the gate alone until boarding commences, scanning the crowd for a POS is not very practical. Yes, the GA could stop the person when boarding but lets be real that is probably not going to happen.

As an EXP usually up front, it usually is not a big (pardon the pun) issue for me. But I did miss three upgs last year and occassionally fly DL (like this weekend) with no status so I am back there from time to time. I find that having a window seat seems to give you more space and of course you don't have to get up during flight for anyone else.

As others have said, you could be asked to be reseated. But that will probably mean something like being given something 32E on an MD 80 given load factors. If the flight is full, you could pull the IVB card but also likely you need to be somewhere at a certain time or make a connection.

But as EXP, don't you almost certainly have an exit row when in Y? If so, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to request the POS be reseated as a safety concern.

Exit row seats don't have armrests that go up. If another passenger can sit in an exit row seat and get the seat belt fastened, they will fit through the window exit.

AA's POS policy says nothing about reseating the person who is inconvenienced.

Quote:

---

If you meet any of the above criteria and have not booked an extra seat in advance, please see an airport agent. If seats are available in your ticketed cabin, you may be accommodated in the same cabin next to an empty seat. The additional seating must be available without downgrading or unseating another customer. If time allows, and upon payment of the fare difference, you may be offered a seat in a higher class of service that may provide more space*.

If additional seating is not available, you may purchase a second adjacent seat on a different flight. The fare for the second seat will be the same as the original seat.

---

It does seem to indicate that the POS will be reseated if 2 adjacent seats are available, or the POS will be (presumably deplaned and) able to purchase 2 seats on a later flight.

The policy seems fair; reseat the POS (space available) or rebook them if they failed to follow the policy and purchase an F or second Y seat.