SanFranciscoTechGuy

Yeah...I think AZ, like KL, will just become of a large AF network...

The Questions is AF any better...dont think so....look at how slowly their industrial plan is aimed to save costs from AF/KL consolidation...look at the many different types of aircraft..tell me why does anyone fly both

767s and A330s...
777s and A340s
737s and A320s

have A380's on order.....

The AZ story is just the next in line with European Consolidation..what makes AZ different from SR and SN is that AZ is the home of one of the top Industrial Countries in the world...its kind of like UA./DL/AA going under together and you know..being gobbled up by BA....

OH well....I do agree they will linger a while...for all the bad....they at least have great new places, a livery that is till fresh after 30 years, and really good looking cabin attendants...and yeah, the style is uniquely Italian.....even if there are government...has anyone ever tried an Italian LCC like Meridana or Air One...wow are they great!!!

miles4all

It is my opinion that AF has no interest in AZ whatsoever. Just like nobody wanted SR or SN. Getting rid of a competitor is great for AF.

For those who believe that there will be a solution, I wonder how long we can wait for one. Soon the money will run out and then nobody will supply anything anymore. Then the whole thing will crumble, just like we saw with before mentioned carriers.

CXBA

it's already a 10-year old mantra in Europe that at the beginning of the millennium only three carriers would survive: AF, LH, BA. Now it's almost true, with all the remaining flag carriers either joining ST or *A, and slowly converting to haul passengers to the massive CDG and FRA/MUC hubs, or forced to going bust. It's a matter of fact that both AF and LH received strong backing from their governments, the same that so far called the shots in Europe. For instance I'd like someone, possibly Rudi to kindly explain me why, in case of Swiss BA is unwilling to get a participation while LH make sure that anyone knows they are negotiating the purchase of a majority stake in the carrier. Where LH will get the money, and where will BA: aren't they present in the same European stock exchanges? And what about all the fuss when BA/KLM talks collapsed, purportedly because BA wanted a greater share of the carrier? The official explanation was because the Dutch wanted the company to stay in national hands: so why KLM choose to reverse their stand a mere few years after, withou any explicit guarantee that the new french owners will respect the deal (doubters please recall the analog Eurobourse story)?

CXBA

... hence is a matter of national pride to get the plane that will finally erase the supremacy of arrogant, unilateralist and "exception culturelle"-crushers, the Americans. Don't worry about the price: you will find that BNP-Paribas and CL and CA et plusieurs will be more than happy to put the interest of the State and the Nation forward and grant you the most fantastic loan in order to get the best of European technology

NickB

As to KLM, KLM were running out of options. They were continually haemorrhaging cash and time was not on their side. Also, the regulatory risk was substantially diminished with the European Court of Justice 'Open Skies' judgment. Besides this, there might have been additional issues in the small print. Perhaps BA was not offering enough? Perhaps they were not ready to maintain the identity of the airline, even if for a limited time?

As to LX, BA and LH are in a different position. For LH, it means strengthening and becoming the �ber-dominant carrier in the West-Central European region. There is more room for economies of scale between LH and LX than between BA and LX. To that extent, LX is more valuable to LH than it is to BA.

Yes, AF and LH received strong help from their governments but so did many European carriers at the time. The message from the EU Commission was clear: this is your last chance to do this. After this, state aid rules will be enforced much more strictly.