MAX 9 Effect on AS-Boeing Relationship (incl. MAX 9 Assembly/Deliveries/Retrofits)
Jan 11, 2024, 5:58 pm
#1
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MAX 9 Effect on AS-Boeing Relationship (incl. MAX 9 Assembly/Deliveries/Retrofits)
Moderator Note
New thread specifically for AS-related news and updates (not speculation) on Boeing's response to AS regarding the MAX 9 incident. This is not a thread for general Boeing / FAA / NTSB / generic MAX news and comments. Those belong elsewhere, maybe OMNI.
All off-topic posts will be deleted, or possibly moved.
dayone, AS Moderator
New thread specifically for AS-related news and updates (not speculation) on Boeing's response to AS regarding the MAX 9 incident. This is not a thread for general Boeing / FAA / NTSB / generic MAX news and comments. Those belong elsewhere, maybe OMNI.
All off-topic posts will be deleted, or possibly moved.
dayone, AS Moderator
Jan 11, 2024, 6:26 pm
#2
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Seven passengers from flight 1282 have filed a proposed class-action lawsuit against Boeing.
“Although everyone is glad that the blowout occurred while the crew could still manage to land the aircraft safely, this nightmare experience has caused economic, physical and ongoing emotional consequences that have understandably deeply affected our clients, and is one more disturbing mark on the troubled 737-MAX series aircraft,” attorney Daniel Laurence from The Stritmatter law firm, which is representing the passengers, wrote in a statement.
Jan 11, 2024, 10:09 pm
#3
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If the claims in this video are true, which I believe are, that a plane have control issues, de-icing issue even just delivered the night before, we could see 737 max grounded, entirely:
Other than Alaska, Southwest will endure another huge blow, put doubt on future of 737-7s
Other than Alaska, Southwest will endure another huge blow, put doubt on future of 737-7s
Jan 11, 2024, 10:45 pm
#4
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That video is kind of eye-opening, TBH. Except for the part where he says the CEO needs to go because he's been there 10+ years. Boeing CEO is Dave Calhoun, who was hired in Jan 2020. They may need new leadership to get through this, but... that's a pretty glaring factual error, right?
Jan 11, 2024, 11:01 pm
#5
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That video is kind of eye-opening, TBH. Except for the part where he says the CEO needs to go because he's been there 10+ years. Boeing CEO is Dave Calhoun, who was hired in Jan 2020. They may need new leadership to get through this, but... that's a pretty glaring factual error, right?
Jan 11, 2024, 11:20 pm
#6
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That video is kind of eye-opening, TBH. Except for the part where he says the CEO needs to go because he's been there 10+ years. Boeing CEO is Dave Calhoun, who was hired in Jan 2020. They may need new leadership to get through this, but... that's a pretty glaring factual error, right?
Jan 12, 2024, 12:34 am
#7
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I’m not an Alaska board member…but in a high fixed cost/low profit margin business how do you manage loosing 25% of capacity for an indeterminate amount of time? Especially when competitors are largely unaffected. (Even United is down 10% of planes, and much less than that of capacity.)
If I was on the board, I’d have a serious conversation with management about risk management and vendors. And having an over reliance on a single hub which does not have a particularly diverse economy.
Alaska tends to be an operationally excellent business, but think it needs strategic help.
If I was on the board, I’d have a serious conversation with management about risk management and vendors. And having an over reliance on a single hub which does not have a particularly diverse economy.
Alaska tends to be an operationally excellent business, but think it needs strategic help.
Jan 12, 2024, 5:11 am
#8
Join Date: Jul 2017
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The Seattle business community is a tight knit group. But, while AS’ devotion to BA may be a nice thing in the Seattle community, it is a huge strategic risk for AS as a business given BA’s sloppy execution over the course of many, many years. As AS contemplates the execution of the Hawaiian merger, they need to have a clear-eyed skeptic in the room when it comes to fleet planning. What if the FAA were to ground the entire family of Max airframes again for an extended period of time? And, what if that were to happen a few years from now when the fleet is mostly Max?
Jan 12, 2024, 6:05 am
#9
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...perhaps he meant Calhoun’s entire time at Boeing (it seems he started on the Board in 2009)
The reporter asking the questions isn't very good -- she missed countless follow-up opportunities. Pierson mentioned command-and-control system failures in new aircraft, which is explosive, but she didn't pick up on it. He clearly believes the MAX ought to be grounded, and implies it's time to pull the plug on the entire program, but she let that sail overhead, along with all its colossal implications. The problem with the sleepy / indulgent FAA during the MCAS drama is supposed to have been addressed; Pierson says it clearly continues, but she didn't seem to notice.
It is easy to imagine another serious, perhaps fatal, MAX incident overseas, where as Pierson says we have no visibility into error trends -- and then all hell will break loose globally, and if that happens AS / SW / UA won't have to decide whether they can squeak by without the MAX type online -- it'll be decided for them.
What has happened to Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas wearing a cheap polyester Boeing hat) is an American tragedy.
Jan 12, 2024, 8:24 am
#11
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Jan 12, 2024, 10:08 am
#12
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Correct -- and the BOD is as accountable for these lapses as the CEO.
The reporter asking the questions isn't very good -- she missed countless follow-up opportunities. Pierson mentioned command-and-control system failures in new aircraft, which is explosive, but she didn't pick up on it. He clearly believes the MAX ought to be grounded, and implies it's time to pull the plug on the entire program, but she let that sail overhead, along with all its colossal implications. The problem with the sleepy / indulgent FAA during the MCAS drama is supposed to have been addressed; Pierson says it clearly continues, but she didn't seem to notice.
It is easy to imagine another serious, perhaps fatal, MAX incident overseas, where as Pierson says we have no visibility into error trends -- and then all hell will break loose globally, and if that happens AS / SW / UA won't have to decide whether they can squeak by without the MAX type online -- it'll be decided for them.
What has happened to Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas wearing a cheap polyester Boeing hat) is an American tragedy.
The reporter asking the questions isn't very good -- she missed countless follow-up opportunities. Pierson mentioned command-and-control system failures in new aircraft, which is explosive, but she didn't pick up on it. He clearly believes the MAX ought to be grounded, and implies it's time to pull the plug on the entire program, but she let that sail overhead, along with all its colossal implications. The problem with the sleepy / indulgent FAA during the MCAS drama is supposed to have been addressed; Pierson says it clearly continues, but she didn't seem to notice.
It is easy to imagine another serious, perhaps fatal, MAX incident overseas, where as Pierson says we have no visibility into error trends -- and then all hell will break loose globally, and if that happens AS / SW / UA won't have to decide whether they can squeak by without the MAX type online -- it'll be decided for them.
What has happened to Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas wearing a cheap polyester Boeing hat) is an American tragedy.
Boy howdy - an extremely superficial interview.
This guy is talking about hundred of fatalities in the MAX program (hinting that more will come), and the interviewer asks, "Will this impact summer travel?"
I know, it's hard being a journalist nowadays. You have to look attractive, sound pleasant, and try your best to make it appear that you know something about the subject at hand when interviewing someone - no matter what that subject may be. To me this interviewer appeared disinterested in getting to specific facts, and stunningly ignorant about anything relating to aviation, safety, or business for that matter. No follow-ups, no probing, no questions to get below the glossy surface. Just canned, general questions, with zero follow-ups. Very disappointing.
Last edited by nwflyboy; Jan 12, 2024 at 10:18 am
Jan 12, 2024, 10:31 am
#13
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Aaaand...here comes something potentially significant: today (Friday 1/12/24) the FAA announced "FAA Increasing Oversight of Boeing Production and Manufacturing". Link to their original update here.
Here's the money shot quote IMHO: "It is time to re-examine the delegation of authority and assess any associated safety risks," FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said. "The grounding of the 737-9 and the multiple production-related issues identified in recent years require us to look at every option to reduce risk. The FAA is exploring the use of an independent third party to oversee Boeing’s inspections and its quality system."
Queue the Darth Vader "Imperial March" walk-on music...
Full text below.
Here's the money shot quote IMHO: "It is time to re-examine the delegation of authority and assess any associated safety risks," FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said. "The grounding of the 737-9 and the multiple production-related issues identified in recent years require us to look at every option to reduce risk. The FAA is exploring the use of an independent third party to oversee Boeing’s inspections and its quality system."
Queue the Darth Vader "Imperial March" walk-on music...
Full text below.
Friday, January 12, 2024
WASHINGTON, D.C. — After taking decisive and immediate action to ground approximately 171 Boeing 737-9 MAX planes, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced new and significant actions to immediately increase its oversight of Boeing production and manufacturing. These actions come one day after the FAA formally notified Boeing that the FAA has launched an investigation into the company as a result of last Friday’s incident on a Boeing Model 737-9 MAX in which the aircraft lost a passenger door plug while in flight.
The actions announced today include the FAA conducting:
Yesterday, the FAA announced an investigation to determine if Boeing failed to ensure completed products conformed to its approved design and were in a condition for safe operation in compliance with FAA regulations. The letter to Boeing is available here.
The safety of the flying public, not speed, will determine the timeline for returning the Boeing 737-9 MAX to service.
See the FAA's statements on the grounding of certain Boeing 737-9 MAX aircraft here.
WASHINGTON, D.C. — After taking decisive and immediate action to ground approximately 171 Boeing 737-9 MAX planes, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced new and significant actions to immediately increase its oversight of Boeing production and manufacturing. These actions come one day after the FAA formally notified Boeing that the FAA has launched an investigation into the company as a result of last Friday’s incident on a Boeing Model 737-9 MAX in which the aircraft lost a passenger door plug while in flight.
The actions announced today include the FAA conducting:
- An audit involving the Boeing 737-9 MAX production line and its suppliers to evaluate Boeing’s compliance with its approved quality procedures. The results of the FAA’s audit analysis will determine whether additional audits are necessary.
- Increased monitoring of Boeing 737-9 MAX in-service events.
- Assessment of safety risks around delegated authority and quality oversight, and examination of options to move these functions under independent, third-party entities.
Yesterday, the FAA announced an investigation to determine if Boeing failed to ensure completed products conformed to its approved design and were in a condition for safe operation in compliance with FAA regulations. The letter to Boeing is available here.
The safety of the flying public, not speed, will determine the timeline for returning the Boeing 737-9 MAX to service.
See the FAA's statements on the grounding of certain Boeing 737-9 MAX aircraft here.
Jan 12, 2024, 10:36 am
#14
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They also just found "discrepancies" with 4 soon to be delivered 737-9 Maxes--some or all of which were to be going to AS in Jan/Feb. No word yet on what "discrepancy" means in this case.
Jan 12, 2024, 11:03 am
#15
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