Changes in the Award Charts
Nov 1, 2022, 2:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 68
Changes in the Award Charts
So when AS announced that there will be changes to the award chart in Dec 2022, does it mean we get 3 months before the change kicks in (march 2023) or pretty much they will announce a change which will be effective immediately in Dec 2022? Many thanks!
Nov 1, 2022, 2:54 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SAN
Programs: AS Mileage Plan 100k, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 991
From the actual terms and conditions:
They are not required to give you any notice or heads up.
Alaska Airlines reserves the right to establish redemption rules and to set the number of miles required to obtain Mileage Plan benefits, including award travel and upgrades, which are subject to change at Alaska Airlines' sole discretion without notice.
Nov 1, 2022, 6:38 pm
#4
Join Date: Nov 2013
Programs: NZ
Posts: 1,554
Good question - I decided to hedge my bets on an intra-Asia trip and made a booking at the current rates. I can always cancel and only lose the partner booking fee. If they introduce region based award charts covering all carriers then many of the sweet spots in the current charts will almost certainly disappear. But of course at this stage we don't know what the changes to the award charts will involve.
Nov 2, 2022, 10:19 pm
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 885
Delta has it's SkyPesos; what are we to call Alaska miles?
Nov 4, 2022, 12:17 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,391
i redeem SkyMiles all the time on domestic itineraries. I can assure you that it’s not going to take 50,000 miles minimum to make an AS domestic coach redemption of any length.You will probably see the AS/AA chart take over for AA domestic.
The stuff that is probably going to get sucked out is the extreme value partner stuff (like Cathay J for 50k) on a distance based chart. To be fair a good chunk of the value left Al ready, an AA J redemption on QR is cheaper than an AS redemption, IB, AY are similar, MH is a joke. There’s a possibility that there may be value on the top end if they do a chart like CX or BA though.
https://princeoftravel.com/blog/the-...r-award-chart/
https://princeoftravel.com/blog/brit...er-award-chart
They could have something like 70k distance-based to Japan/Europe, 80k to SE Asia (with like 30-40k on top for F) and while it would still be a devaluation it would be competitive with UA and others. We’ll just have to see how they set bands, etc.
Nov 4, 2022, 3:36 pm
#8
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,967
So I was trying to get some clarity from AS on how they charge taxes and fees for mixed award cabins and the responses are VERY worrying. Phone agents, including international desk, said they don't have any idea or control over how pricing happens including on taxes and fees and that I should write into customer care. Customer care said they are not able to provide any information and that the international desks are only ones that have that info. So ok giving me the run around because Alaska is likely chagrinning illegal taxes and fees when booked in AS premium cabin but partner coach award ticket (e.g. charging partner premium taxes and fees for coach bookings).
But biggest worry, all agents basically said they have no control or information on award pricing since its now whatever the system / computer tells you it is now. Essentially they are already trained to tell you its all dynamic pricing. Sad but this is mileage plan's future.
But biggest worry, all agents basically said they have no control or information on award pricing since its now whatever the system / computer tells you it is now. Essentially they are already trained to tell you its all dynamic pricing. Sad but this is mileage plan's future.
Nov 4, 2022, 4:33 pm
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 885
So I was trying to get some clarity from AS on how they charge taxes and fees for mixed award cabins and the responses are VERY worrying. Phone agents, including international desk, said they don't have any idea or control over how pricing happens including on taxes and fees and that I should write into customer care. Customer care said they are not able to provide any information and that the international desks are only ones that have that info. So ok giving me the run around because Alaska is likely chagrinning illegal taxes and fees when booked in AS premium cabin but partner coach award ticket (e.g. charging partner premium taxes and fees for coach bookings).
But biggest worry, all agents basically said they have no control or information on award pricing since its now whatever the system / computer tells you it is now. Essentially they are already trained to tell you its all dynamic pricing. Sad but this is mileage plan's future.
But biggest worry, all agents basically said they have no control or information on award pricing since its now whatever the system / computer tells you it is now. Essentially they are already trained to tell you its all dynamic pricing. Sad but this is mileage plan's future.
When it comes time to cashing in those miles for, say, an airline ticket, the number of miles required is inflating considerably faster than the inflation rate, which is to say a lot. So, you are getting screwed on both ends; it costs you more to accrue the miles and then when you get them they are worth less in terms of "free" carriage in the future on Alaska Airlines or its partner airlines.
When you run the math and compare the cost of buying a ticket vs. obtaining one for miles plus cash in some manner, you find that those miles are worth around half a US cent each at present value. When you use your miles in this way you don't accrue any more miles on the trips you take, which means that the miles are worth less than half a cent each, if you think that status in the frequent flyer program is worth something (I do). So that would be a whole other side calculation which would involve how much you might spend on checked luggage, lounge access, etc. Plus, if you have status, when an itinerary gets screwed up due to flight cancelations, weather, change of your own plans, etc., you are much more likely to get helped out of your situation and at less or no cost, if you have status vs. not having status.
Putting all of this together, other than for the most basic and least demanding back of the plane flyer, say someone who seldom flies, whose time is worth little, who is imbued with limitless patience, taking the family to go visit relatives on an occasional trip, the miles are worth very little to nothing at this point in time. If you fly enough to get status, better to pay for the flights and then use the miles for a little trip on a route with open seats, a trip you wouldn't otherwise have taken. That can be fun too, but going to a lot of effort to accrue miles and, perish the thought, buying them, that's just a really big waste of your time in most cases.
Nov 4, 2022, 4:39 pm
#10
Join Date: Mar 2003
Programs: BA GGL; AA LT Gold; AS 100K; DL MM GM; Hyatt G*list, Hilton Diamond; SQ silver
Posts: 3,806
Nov 4, 2022, 4:46 pm
#11
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,967
It actually all makes perfect sense. AS gives you miles based on distance, class of travel, and your status in the Mileage Plan. The price of these tickets has obviously been going up significantly, so each mile you get will cost you more to obtain.
When it comes time to cashing in those miles for, say, an airline ticket, the number of miles required is inflating considerably faster than the inflation rate, which is to say a lot. So, you are getting screwed on both ends; it costs you more to accrue the miles and then when you get them they are worth less in terms of "free" carriage in the future on Alaska Airlines or its partner airlines.
When you run the math and compare the cost of buying a ticket vs. obtaining one for miles plus cash in some manner, you find that those miles are worth around half a US cent each at present value. When you use your miles in this way you don't accrue any more miles on the trips you take, which means that the miles are worth less than half a cent each, if you think that status in the frequent flyer program is worth something (I do). So that would be a whole other side calculation which would involve how much you might spend on checked luggage, lounge access, etc. Plus, if you have status, when an itinerary gets screwed up due to flight cancelations, weather, change of your own plans, etc., you are much more likely to get helped out of your situation and at less or no cost, if you have status vs. not having status.
Putting all of this together, other than for the most basic and least demanding back of the plane flyer, say someone who seldom flies, whose time is worth little, who is imbued with limitless patience, taking the family to go visit relatives on an occasional trip, the miles are worth very little to nothing at this point in time. If you fly enough to get status, better to pay for the flights and then use the miles for a little trip on a route with open seats, a trip you wouldn't otherwise have taken. That can be fun too, but going to a lot of effort to accrue miles and, perish the thought, buying them, that's just a really big waste of your time in most cases.
When it comes time to cashing in those miles for, say, an airline ticket, the number of miles required is inflating considerably faster than the inflation rate, which is to say a lot. So, you are getting screwed on both ends; it costs you more to accrue the miles and then when you get them they are worth less in terms of "free" carriage in the future on Alaska Airlines or its partner airlines.
When you run the math and compare the cost of buying a ticket vs. obtaining one for miles plus cash in some manner, you find that those miles are worth around half a US cent each at present value. When you use your miles in this way you don't accrue any more miles on the trips you take, which means that the miles are worth less than half a cent each, if you think that status in the frequent flyer program is worth something (I do). So that would be a whole other side calculation which would involve how much you might spend on checked luggage, lounge access, etc. Plus, if you have status, when an itinerary gets screwed up due to flight cancelations, weather, change of your own plans, etc., you are much more likely to get helped out of your situation and at less or no cost, if you have status vs. not having status.
Putting all of this together, other than for the most basic and least demanding back of the plane flyer, say someone who seldom flies, whose time is worth little, who is imbued with limitless patience, taking the family to go visit relatives on an occasional trip, the miles are worth very little to nothing at this point in time. If you fly enough to get status, better to pay for the flights and then use the miles for a little trip on a route with open seats, a trip you wouldn't otherwise have taken. That can be fun too, but going to a lot of effort to accrue miles and, perish the thought, buying them, that's just a really big waste of your time in most cases.
Nov 4, 2022, 4:48 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,967
Nov 4, 2022, 5:10 pm
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 885
Perhaps true for some, but Alaska really isn't too competitive outside its mileage program. Once they go dynamic its gets even less competitive since eventually they will just follow the others into dynamic earning as well. Might as well get way more routes, lie flats transcon, and better IRROps handling from the big 3 once the milage program loses its advantages.
This is not to say that I think BA Avios are worth that much more than AS miles, but the status and its benefits with BA is worth more to me.
If I was flying extensively and long haul in the US, and not originating from the West Coast (especially Seattle) I'd be looking at other carriers, that much is for sure.
Nov 4, 2022, 5:15 pm
#14
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,967
All of this is going to depend on your own travel pattern. I don't personally think that concentrating miles traveled with Alaska makes very much sense, unless you happen to live in Seattle (from whence most of the longer haul services radiate) or if your travel is heavily concentrated on the West Coast. The only places I frequently travel within the USA are the Boise to Seattle and Boise to San Diego routes. On these routes, AS is the dominant carrier. But I actually fly way more miles with BA than I do with AS, so I'm transitioning all of my mileage accrual to the BA Executive Club program and will lose my status with AS in a couple of months, which is fine because I have higher status with BA (Emerald) than I do with AS.
This is not to say that I think BA Avios are worth that much more than AS miles, but the status and its benefits with BA is worth more to me.
If I was flying extensively and long haul in the US, and not originating from the West Coast (especially Seattle) I'd be looking at other carriers, that much is for sure.
This is not to say that I think BA Avios are worth that much more than AS miles, but the status and its benefits with BA is worth more to me.
If I was flying extensively and long haul in the US, and not originating from the West Coast (especially Seattle) I'd be looking at other carriers, that much is for sure.
Nov 4, 2022, 5:54 pm
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 885
Oof. BA going spend based earning too. I used to be Gold on BA and the benefits were very meh. Luckily OW emerald gets most of the stuff I care about since I still fly BA a lot. I'll stick with AS for now, but easy enough to go back to AA and get EXP with their new LP system.
But all these loyalty programs are 2 way streets, and it's easy enough to jettison a carrier in favor of another one should the circumstances merit. Most likely in that case you would be able to get the new carrier to do a status match for long enough that you could attain similar status with them and remain relatively well-treated in the overall scheme of things.