Should AS Stay Committed to the MAX?

Old Jun 30, 19, 11:44 am
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Should AS Stay Committed to the MAX?

With many on order, and speculation mounting that AS may announce a big Max order as soon as the airplane is approved to fly again commercially, what are your thoughts on the wisdom of this move? While AS management has long-stated their preference for BA aircraft, my own view is that this trust must have presumed honesty and integrity in their business dealings. BA is running the typical big company playbook with their denial of responsibility— which has echoes of AS’ own tragic experience many years ago. Does AS management have the guts to play hardball on this, or will they just add to the order book and hope for the best?
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Old Jun 30, 19, 1:04 pm
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Originally Posted by BayAreaTrvler View Post
With many on order, and speculation mounting that AS may announce a big Max order as soon as the airplane is approved to fly again commercially, what are your thoughts on the wisdom of this move? While AS management has long-stated their preference for BA aircraft, my own view is that this trust must have presumed honesty and integrity in their business dealings. BA is running the typical big company playbook with their denial of responsibility— which has echoes of AS’ own tragic experience many years ago. Does AS management have the guts to play hardball on this, or will they just add to the order book and hope for the best?
I've heard rumblings that they are looking at adding more 321 NEO's to the fleet. Obvi, I don't know anything more than anyone else, but I know that they are really appreciating the plane thus far... I'd be surprised to hear an order for more Max until they can get their hands on the ones they have on order and see if they are really the game changers they seem to think they are.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 1:39 pm
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They have little choice.

Either 737 MAX 8 and 9 or A320neo.

Sukhoi Superjet is not an option. Nor are used MD-80's. Or the 919.

I suspect the MAX will fly without crashing. The 737-200's stopped crashing after the rudder fix. I wouldn't be surprised if the new name is 737-8 and 737-9 or even 737-2100.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 1:50 pm
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Originally Posted by Toshbaf View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if the new name is 737-8 and 737-9
The IAG order announced at Paris was for the "737-8" and "737-10".
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Old Jun 30, 19, 2:06 pm
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
The IAG order announced at Paris was for the "737-8" and "737-10".
If Boeing has to change hardware, even a computer chip with more computing power, like is being suggested as possible, they should change the name to the 737-2100, -2200, -2300, and -2400. The series would be the -2000 series, as opposed to the NG (-600 to -900ER) and Classic.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 2:13 pm
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
The IAG order announced at Paris was for the "737-8" and "737-10".
Just to clarify, IAG did not order any yet. They just signed an LOI so they can walk away without an order if they find something else or feel that the MAX will not be a good fit when/if it ever takes flight.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 5:02 pm
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Why would they walk away again?

They need the MAXs badly, and I’m sure they will press them into service as soon as possible.
Wouldn’t be surprised for them to order a lot more either.

I can’t believe people who continue to think this is going to be something anyone remembers in a year.
Does anyone remember the 787 grounding? Nope.
That’s the best selling wide body in the world, and it keeps selling.

I’m excited for my first MAX ride on AS, can’t wait to see if it’s quieter than the NGs as everyone says.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 5:15 pm
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Was there a congressional inquiry into the 787? Did the most famous pilot in the world go in front of congress and tell the world that the training recommended by Boeing was insufficient? Did Boeing get sued by pilots over it? Were there accusations of wrongdoing by Boeing and the FAA?

People don't remember it because it's a completely different situation. Both Boeing and the FAA have had their reputations severely tarnished by this fiasco.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 5:26 pm
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The earliest deliveries for IAG would not even begin until 2023 so if they were in a rush for aircraft they would be placing an order and not just doing a photo op to make Boeing look better. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 4 years. We could be in the depths of a recession and they may not need them or advances may bring to light another competitive product.

Many of our employees that don’t know the differences between aircraft types do vocalize that they have no desire whatsoever to fly on the MAX. If it remains grounded through the end of the year which is looking conservative at this point, people will remember. Once trust is destroyed it is not easily repaired. If there is another crash, then the MAX will be in deep trouble.

IAG was smart in some ways. They get new planes at fire sale prices if things work out for the MAX. If things go further south, they have several years to come up with a new plan. Surely some other airline with new plane orders will go bust in the next four years and they can just negotiate to take over those slots if needed.
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Old Jun 30, 19, 6:15 pm
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
The IAG order announced at Paris was for the "737-8" and "737-10".
Boeing's press release mentioned MAX 14 times, so they haven't changed naming yet.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06...-MAX-Airplanes
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Old Jun 30, 19, 10:22 pm
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I hope they don't order it. Airbus NEO sounds like a better airplane, not to mention slightly wider cabin
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Old Jul 1, 19, 3:21 am
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Originally Posted by WestCoastPDX View Post
Does anyone remember the 787 grounding? Nope.
Yeah no one remembers that grounding because it wasn't caused by two hulls crashing within six months of each other causing the combined loss of 346 lives.
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Old Jul 1, 19, 6:34 am
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Originally Posted by jashsu View Post
Yeah no one remembers that grounding because it wasn't caused by two hulls crashing within six months of each other causing the combined loss of 346 lives.
Did you know that's almost identical to the number of people who drown in bathtubs and spas annually? (source)
Assume parents, hotels and anyone with a tub should stop using them?

And what about tall buildings? After 9/11, we didn't stop using skyscrapers, even though people died!
And cars? Strangely we still use those every day, despite tens of thousands of deaths.... I bet you've been in one recently too.


--
My personal opinion: the 'Internet outrage culture' has lowered the bar so far for people to get their complaints heard - that the scale of most issues get blown way out of proportion.
Of course, this is up until the point where the next thing that people can be outraged about occurs..... and then my how people forget the last thing they were so darn mad about.

Alaska has a vested interest in being a safe airline.
Boeing has a vested interest in building safe planes.

Overthinking these facts is just not helpful to the general discourse.

--
Looking forward to many great MAX rides over the next 20 years.
Hopefully starting this year!

Last edited by WestCoastPDX; Jul 1, 19 at 6:36 am Reason: grammar
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Old Jul 1, 19, 6:52 am
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Originally Posted by WestCoastPDX View Post

I can’t believe people who continue to think this is going to be something anyone remembers in a year.
Does anyone remember the 787 grounding? Nope.
.
Yes, I still remember the 787 groundings. And the ongoing BA 787 engine woes.
And yes, I am one of those who refused to let my family fly on the MAX after the Lionair crash, but prior to the Ethiopian one.
I and my family will not set foot on a MAX for at least 3 years after they return to service.
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Old Jul 1, 19, 7:13 am
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i tweeted to alaska several times to comment on the future of max order but no reply.
I think they should not go forward. it is a bad idea, bad marketing and god forbid something happens.
I am sure there are other options like older 737 ng or just switch to 320/321 neo
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