PaperGlider

That is extra because I didn't imply anything was different. I just didn't know.

but thanks for the answer.

sfozrhfco

With the fare yield figures just posted for transcon flights with Mint competition for Q4 2018, it is pretty obvious why AS is offering these promos. Their yields just keep getting worse and worse. B6 even had better yields on JFK-SEA and came close on BOS-SEA while AS under performed on most other routes by 20-35% compared to B6 and by an even bigger margin compared to some of the legacies. Even with the addition of higher capacity A321s and 737s, they haven't been able to make any progress with yield improvement. Since they are not going to do anything to make the product significantly better than the competition, their last hope is to get people with the miles. Failing that, it will be interesting to see what they do with those underperforming routes.

JetBlue Network Thread - 2019 - Page 7 - Airliners.net (post 340)

chrisl137

In my very limited sample size (just flew my first LAX-BOS of the year yesterday, with more LAX-east coast coming up the next few months), they aren't packing the plane with saver fares. There were several announcements before boarding started that the people on saver fares would have to wait until 30 min before departure for seats and that they'd be called up to the podium to get them. It was on the order of 30 people. The plane was full, with only a few empty seats, and F was full with nobody clearing the upgrade list (doesn't mean everybody paid for F, just that they didn't clear after check-in). They're not upselling all the PC seats - the few empty seats included a few in PC. Pricing on non-BE non-stops has been pretty good for me, but not good for AS. When I'm shopping for flights it looks like they are beating the corporate-discounted UA fares that I get for comparable routes/times, which are generally better than I can get on other airlines for non-BE. I was having more trouble doing that late last year than I am now, so it may not just be BE, but other fare buckets also could be marked down as well, and people aren't buying up to PC. I'm usually looking 2-4 weeks out.

channa

How does the 737 improve yields, though? Compared to the Airbus, It gives them more F to not sell, and more discounted seats in the back to push down pricing.


The data points are all over the map. Friend of mine flew Bay Area to New York RT and got the MVP comp upgrade in both directions, with F flying with at least one empty in F both ways. One flight was fairly full, the other was very empty.

chrisl137

That's a premium route on the US3, so if you go by what people complain about here on FT, nobody would ever pay for F on AS (or fly them at all, since there are no lie-flats). LAX-BOS (and LAX-IAD/DCA/BWI) is a non-premium, so the AS product is more comparable to what the US3 are flying.

sfozrhfco

That WAS true but is not the case now. UA/DL/AA/B6 all have lie flats on that route now. AS in the only one that doesn't.

sfozrhfco

Presumably they were upgauging thinking that they were magically going to sell the extra F seats and get a better mix of fares in Y which has obviously not been happening and seemingly will just get worse as they pull Airbus aircraft and redeploy them to West Coast routes.

flyingstudent

While the AS numbers on ex-CA trans-con are much worse than AA/UA/DL, they are actually comparable to AS numbers between SEA and east coast.

It's just AS is carrying a lot more leisure traffic vs the last minute high fare corp traffic that AA/UA/DL are flying between California and east coast. Also maybe a lot of corp traffic pays top dollar for the lie flat seats. I'm really surprised at AA/UA average fares are so high given advanced Y fares in these markets are in the $100 one way range for the last year.

chrisl137

UA has the lie-flats but I don't think they're doing the other PS features (meal in E+, PS lounge, etc). If you have to buy Y-cabin only, you can still get upgraded on AS, and premium class seats are easier for MVP to get than E+ are for Silver.

sfozrhfco

Why do you think B6 started Mint? They were losing money for much of the year on these transcon flights where there was a lot of competition. They are only making money on them now because people are paying for Mint seats which subsidize the low coach fares. That is also why AA chose a premium cabin dense configuration when they moved the A321s on LAX/SFO-JFK. AS going in with more capacity and selling few seats in F and lots of $99/$129 fares--or worse yet--the same fares but people connecting through CA from the PNW is a recipe for losses outside of the summer months. Management has been complaining for many quarters now about how poorly they are performing yet they are just now getting around to offer a promo to try to win back some customers. Guess we will see if it is too little too late or if they manage to turn things around by the end of the year.

VegasGambler

But harder for MVPG than they are for Gold. UA has more E+ seats than AS (on most planes) and they allow Gold and up to select at time of booking.

I'm not sure what UA offers in E+ on that route but on AA, the E+ "snack" was equivalent to an AS BOB meal (sandwich or cheese plate). All snacks are not created equal...

The main downside of UA E+ is no free drinks, unlike DL, AA, or AS.

chrisl137

The E+ thing is kind of a tossup, but if you normally book close in (like I mostly do) it often doesn't matter if you're gold, you're getting a middle, at least until T-96 (or 120? I don't remember) when the higher status people start getting upgrades. A friend just posted a photo sitting in an E+ middle that he had to pay for - there were no windows or aisles available. I keep an eye on the seats and usually manage to get a window or aisle, but if you're booking inside two weeks it can be marginal and inside of a week can be nothing. Meanwhile I'm sitting in PC on AS BOS-LAX and there are at least 4 empty PC seats (the exit row seats I can see) on an otherwise full plane. F seemed to be booked almost full before upgrades (only 1 person of 6 on the waitlist upgraded) and when they called BG 1, exactly one person boarded. If that's at all representative of transcon traffic to/from LAX, then it's no wonder they're doing the special offers for status and double miles from the CA focus cities - they're running out of repeat customers on those routes.

As far as the food in E+ on PS flights, it's a reasonable version of a standard 1 dish, heat it all together economy meal from back when everybody in economy got one (somewhat higher quality, but nothing special). It will be pasta and vegetables in a single dish, or some meat plus a tiny bit of rice and some overcooked vegetables. It's a little more substantial than something like a cheeseburger or a wrap, but not a lot more. It's less than you get in F on AS, and less fresh (which is I think what AS F is really competing with - I suspect they don't intend to sell full price F seats so much Y seats with a price premium for an upgrade, which probably prices them just a bit above the 1-2 week out Y fares on UA)

BOB W

I just changed a ANC-SEA-JFK flight for ANC-SEA-LAX-JFK for late May. Saved $55, leave a little sooner, arrive at the same time. Mucho more miles.

Eastbay1K

You mean you didn't do this for the extra PDB?

VegasGambler

I just booked...

SFO-JFK (econ)
JFK-SEA-NRT-BKK (business)

and back. AS on domestic, JL on international. Double miles on SFO-JFK and SEA-NRT.

If my calculations are correct, that's 32,790 EQM and 88,146 RDM. And, of course, a long weekend on the beach.

If not for this promo I would have left from LAX (same fare) instead of JFK.