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AS Cancels EK Award Tickets for My Friend [Possible Merge]

AS Cancels EK Award Tickets for My Friend [Possible Merge]

Old May 11, 19, 4:02 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Oh, no, whatever shall I do that frequent flyer programs, casinos and lotteries exist? Aside from not joining or playing them unless I choose to, that is?
Though I basically agree with what you say, the also-sensible counter argument is that it’s easy to not pay for a lottery or casino; just don’t do it. But frequent flyer programs are impossible not to pay for if you fly: the cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price whether you choose to earn the miles or not.
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Old May 11, 19, 4:27 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post


Though I basically agree with what you say, the also-sensible counter argument is that it’s easy to not pay for a lottery or casino; just don’t do it. But frequent flyer programs are impossible not to pay for if you fly: the cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price whether you choose to earn the miles or not.
Do Golds pay more than kettles for AS tickets due to their 100% RDM bonus? And 75ks slightly more than Golds? What about double RDM promos on certain routes?

"The cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price" is true only in the very general sense that mileage redemption costs come out of airline revenues; there's no fixed mileage value either in earning or redemption. It's a nebulous rebate program.
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Old May 11, 19, 5:03 pm
  #78  
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
Do Golds pay more than kettles for AS tickets due to their 100% RDM bonus? And 75ks slightly more than Golds? What about double RDM promos on certain routes?

"The cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price" is true only in the very general sense that mileage redemption costs come out of airline revenues; there's no fixed mileage value either in earning or redemption. It's a nebulous rebate program.
AS reduces the miles given to the masses and gives that to the Golds and 75Ks
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Old May 11, 19, 5:40 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
"The cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price" is true only in the very general sense that mileage redemption costs come out of airline revenues; there's no fixed mileage value either in earning or redemption. It's a nebulous rebate program.
Not to mention that airlines make money on the programs overall. The cost of the miles (in terms of what revenue AS is forgoing) is being subsidized by BofA writing checks and handing out miles.
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Old May 11, 19, 6:31 pm
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by jinglish View Post
Do Golds pay more than kettles for AS tickets due to their 100% RDM bonus? And 75ks slightly more than Golds? What about double RDM promos on certain routes?

"The cost of the miles is baked into the ticket price" is true only in the very general sense that mileage redemption costs come out of airline revenues; there's no fixed mileage value either in earning or redemption. It's a nebulous rebate program.
Sure, they give a different number of miles in different circumstances, and the miles awarded per dollar spent of course varies widely on a mileage based program like Alaska’s. But it is still true that the frequent flyer miles is one of the things you are paying for when you purchase an airline ticket whether you accrue the miles or not. In that sense, paying for the frequent flyer program is not voluntary like paying for a casino or lottery is.

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Not to mention that airlines make money on the programs overall. The cost of the miles (in terms of what revenue AS is forgoing) is being subsidized by BofA writing checks and handing out miles.
They make so much money selling miles to BofA et al that the programs make money overall. But of course the miles have an accounting value (some multiple of which BofA pays AS for credit card miles), and there is an accounting value of the miles that AS awards for fliers. It is in some sense a marketing expense, but it’s still a cost you’re paying for whenever you buy a ticket and by not participating in the frequent flyer program, you give up some of the value of what you paid for.

Now all that said: I play the airlines’ game and find some value — sometimes significant value — in frequent flyer miles. And I agree that the OP and others accused by the prosecutor, judge, and jury airline are very unlikely to get any remedy in a real court or from a lawyer (especially after legal fees even if they do “win”). But make no mistake: it’s the airlines’ game, and there are arbitrage opportunities in part because those who (justifiably) think it’s a scam subsidize those of us who make the effort to play the game.
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Old May 15, 19, 11:21 am
  #81  
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Alaska now said they’d refund expenses

FYI I didn’t buy or sell any miles, and I was personally on the trip myself. Every conversation w: Alaska is documented with notes taken, or voice recorded etc. one costumer service rep actually HUNG UP on my assistant. I believe someone made a mistake and the rest of the staff were instructed to cover it up. We DID file a complaint with DOT. Bottom line - it should not be ok for any company to sell us something, confirm sale, then rescind the item on a whim. It costs people time and money to deal with random, untrained corporate bull like that. Thankfully I DID receive a message back from Alaska customer service after filing the complaint. She said they researched the case notes, & she acknowledged a mistake had been made and there was NO basis to think I had done something wrong with the ticket. They said they will reimburse me for the out of pocket expenses their error cost me & asked me to send the receipts... so I spent another day gathering all receipts & I sent them to Alaska. That was 2 wks ago. They’ve yet to confirm receipt of the documents or reimburse me. I really hope this time they honor their word & do what they say.
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Old May 15, 19, 1:27 pm
  #82  
 
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Well, that sounds better. Honestly, having worked for AA, I think that the fraud department put notes in your record that basically told the agents to not speak with you any further on this issue. This probably hampered any future conversations (whether with a supervisor or not). The compounding issue is that the fraud departments does not/will not talk directly to customers, nor do they tell customer service the exact details of the fraud.

Hopefully, the DOT complaint prompted them to take a fresh look at this issue and they realized that there was no actual fraud. I will tell you that your transaction fits the profile of a large percentage of fraud in many industries at this time (i.e. VPN, location, last minute purchase, etc.). Glad that it seems to be getting straightened out.
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Old May 15, 19, 1:33 pm
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by A3queen View Post
FYI I didn’t buy or sell any miles, and I was personally on the trip myself. Every conversation w: Alaska is documented with notes taken, or voice recorded etc. one costumer service rep actually HUNG UP on my assistant. I believe someone made a mistake and the rest of the staff were instructed to cover it up. We DID file a complaint with DOT. Bottom line - it should not be ok for any company to sell us something, confirm sale, then rescind the item on a whim. It costs people time and money to deal with random, untrained corporate bull like that. Thankfully I DID receive a message back from Alaska customer service after filing the complaint. She said they researched the case notes, & she acknowledged a mistake had been made and there was NO basis to think I had done something wrong with the ticket. They said they will reimburse me for the out of pocket expenses their error cost me & asked me to send the receipts... so I spent another day gathering all receipts & I sent them to Alaska. That was 2 wks ago. They’ve yet to confirm receipt of the documents or reimburse me. I really hope this time they honor their word & do what they say.
I'm curious to hear how the DOT replies.

It's unfortunate that AS treated you so poorly until the DOT complaint.

It seems like the way to go with issues like this is complain to AS, and, if they give you the runaround, immediately complain to the DOT.
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Old May 18, 19, 5:08 pm
  #84  
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I will make sure to complain to the DOT if I book tickets for others and AS tries to bully me into booking for myself only. AS cannot prove that I'm reselling tickets if I'm doing so.

Last edited by MasterGeek; May 18, 19 at 5:16 pm
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Old May 18, 19, 10:01 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek View Post
I will make sure to complain to the DOT if I book tickets for others and AS tries to bully me into booking for myself only. AS cannot prove that I'm reselling tickets if I'm doing so.
There’s plenty of ways to prove it, but discussion on how to best violate program terms is against board rules. I know of FT members who thought they could outsmart FFPs and found out otherwise. But you do you, boo.
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Old May 20, 19, 11:36 pm
  #86  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post


There’s plenty of ways to prove it, but discussion on how to best violate program terms is against board rules. I know of FT members who thought they could outsmart FFPs and found out otherwise. But you do you, boo.
boo to you for agreeing with policies made to maximize Alaska's profits at the expense of consumers

Last edited by MasterGeek; May 22, 19 at 1:56 am
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Old May 29, 19, 1:36 am
  #87  
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There are super simple ways to PROVE that someone is a friend or family member and in my case, the dozens of social media posts on both me and my friends accounts showing us traveling around South Africa together for 2 weeks prior to Alaska situation is surely proof enough that I‘m not a tix broker. Also I clearly have my own provable career in the music biz for over 30 years. There are no grey areas in terms of my proof I DO understand how it could have “looked” like fraud when it first came in. which is why we kept calling & providing whatever they asked for to prove it wasn’t. As a side note, it also took another day to gather all of the receipts, voice notes etc & we still haven’t gotten the check from Alaska yet. Companies will surely make mistakes, but it’s how they handle them that really counts & shows integrity. Fingers crossed that they do what they said they’d do this time.
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Old May 29, 19, 1:50 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek View Post
boo to you for agreeing with policies made to maximize Alaska's profits at the expense of consumers
A number of policies airlines come up with to maximize profits are because some consumers are maximizing 'finding "tricks" and "loopholes" for cheaper/better travel'- tricks like brokering frequent flyer accounts to get premium cabin travel for pennies on the dollar. And then people like the OP of this thread who are doing things legitimately get caught in the crossfire.
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Old May 29, 19, 5:37 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
A number of policies airlines come up with to maximize profits are because some consumers are maximizing 'finding "tricks" and "loopholes" for cheaper/better travel'- tricks like brokering frequent flyer accounts to get premium cabin travel for pennies on the dollar. And then people like the OP of this thread who are doing things legitimately get caught in the crossfire.
Airline was paid for the miles credited to member accounts. But it implemented restrictions that promote "breakage" of miles (non-usage and expiration of miles) to get away from fulfilling its part of the deal to pad its profits.
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Old May 29, 19, 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek View Post
Airline was paid for the miles credited to member accounts. But it implemented restrictions that promote "breakage" of miles (non-usage and expiration of miles) to get away from fulfilling its part of the deal to pad its profits.
You're veering rather off-topic, but do let us know how it all works out for you.

Airlines don't let you resell miles to third parties for the same reasons they don't let you resell airline tickets to those same third parties.

Anyways, good luck in your future use of "tricks and loopholes".
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Last edited by eponymous_coward; May 29, 19 at 5:58 pm
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