Baggage fees when on AS ticket but AA metal.
May 11, 2018, 3:46 pm
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Baggage fees when on AS ticket but AA metal.
I searched but didn't come up with anything. Have a return 1 way ticket OKC-DFW-SEA-SFO where all is AS except for the first leg, OKC-DFW. I know pretty much all the reciprocal benefits between AS and AA are gone but is there anyway to avoid the AA bag fee? And no, not going to get an AA CC just to avoid the fee, or do any kind of status match etc. It is an AS 027 ticket so I will get AS credit for the AA leg.
May 11, 2018, 3:55 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
It will say the baggage rules that apply on your ticket. Those govern the fees that can be charged. What did it say on your ticket?
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/tr...e/checked-bags
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/tr...e/checked-bags
If your travel includes multiple tickets, and/or travel on more than one airline, your baggage fees and rules may be determined by the other airline. Please check your ticket, or call Alaska Airlines Reservations at 1-800-252-7522 to help determine which airline rules and fees apply to your journey.
May 11, 2018, 4:00 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
It will say the baggage rules that apply on your ticket. Those govern the fees that can be charged. What did it say on your ticket?
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/tr...e/checked-bags
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/tr...e/checked-bags
May 11, 2018, 4:42 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
Confirmation direct from AS? Should say at the bottom of the email. If not, maybe call AS and ask them to resend it to your direct email address. If you click on send receipt from the webpage, it sends a slightly different format than the confirmation letter.
May 11, 2018, 4:53 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...er-overview:AA
You'll still earn miles on domestic American Airlines flights with an Alaska Airlines (AS) flight number
American Airlines domestic flights with an "AA" flight number will no longer earn Mileage Plan miles.
May 11, 2018, 5:11 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: Hilton/Marriott Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 2,036
Does AS sell tickets for AA flights on 027 stock as the AA prime flight number, without it being the AS codeshare? Every time I've ever bought it's been the codeshare (but I don't do Concur, just alaskaair.com). And in that case, OP wouldn't earn miles for the AA leg:
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...er-overview:AA
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...er-overview:AA
And I believe I did have to pay a bag fee, as I wasn't quite an MVP at the time.
May 11, 2018, 9:55 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
And I think that’s true even if the OP can’t see the eticket receipt. In this case, the OP will just be surprised at checkin.
However, it doesn’t matter much; AA and AS have similar (identical?) fees for first and second checked bags on domestic itineraries.Note that status and credit card based bag fee waivers are different than the ticketed bag allowance. Bag fee waivers are based on the operating carrier you check in with, so OP with AS status and/or an AS credit card is out of luck, as they suspect.
The only workaround I can think of is to get confirmed in F. I think that any F segment confirmed before checkin would change the ticketed allowance to two bags (if AS rules) or three bags (if AA rules). So upgrading an AS segment (GGU?) may get the bag allowance up. But I’m not at all sure about that.
Last edited by ashill; May 11, 2018 at 10:01 pm
May 11, 2018, 10:02 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
Does AS sell tickets for AA flights on 027 stock as the AA prime flight number, without it being the AS codeshare? Every time I've ever bought it's been the codeshare (but I don't do Concur, just alaskaair.com). And in that case, OP wouldn't earn miles for the AA leg:
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...er-overview:AA
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...er-overview:AA
AS definitely doesn’t sell AA-marketed flights through alaskaair.com. But a travel agent, including a corporate booking portal, certainly could; no idea if they would in this situation.
May 11, 2018, 10:54 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
It is an AS marketed, AS ticketed with AS flight number on AA metal. Ticket purchased through Concur via Balboa travel. Don’t get confirmations from the airline directly, just the Concur/Balboa confirmations. Hope this clears up the info.
The Concur confirmation just has boilerplate info on baggage that just says bag fees may apply but may be waived based on status, blah, blah. Same statement on every confirmation.
The Concur confirmation just has boilerplate info on baggage that just says bag fees may apply but may be waived based on status, blah, blah. Same statement on every confirmation.
Last edited by Baze; May 11, 2018 at 10:59 pm
May 11, 2018, 11:06 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
It is an AS marketed, AS ticketed with AS flight number on AA metal. Ticket purchased through Concur via Balboa travel. Don’t get confirmations from the airline directly, just the Concur/Balboa confirmations. Hope this clears up the info.
The Concur confirmation just has boilerplate info on baggage that just says bag fees may apply but may be waived based on status, blah, blah. Same statement on every confirmation.
The Concur confirmation just has boilerplate info on baggage that just says bag fees may apply but may be waived based on status, blah, blah. Same statement on every confirmation.
Yeah, given that it’s all AS marketed, strong chance that it will be AS fees (but not AS fee waivers since you check in with AA). But even if you can’t see it, what the eticket receipt says is what matters. Maybe if you call your travel agency they can look at the ticket and tell you what it says?
May 11, 2018, 11:27 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
That is incorrect, at least as a blanket statement. The baggage allowance is based on the rules of whatever carrier the eticket receipt says, usually the ticketing carrier or the marketing carrier of the first segment on that ticket (so in this case, it could be either AS or AA rules that apply; I don’t know how AS determines that in issuing tickets). If the eticket receipt says it’s AS’s rules that apply, then AS’s rules apply even if checking in with AA and the OKC-DFW segment is both AA marketed and operated.
Ticketing carrier means nothing under domestic or international DOT baggage rules.
For domestic itins, the marketing carrier of the first segment sets the rules. The requirement of the ticket receipt to reflect baggage allowance doesn't supersede that rule.
As for my contention that if the OP's first segment is AA-marketed, AA sets the allowance, here you go, directly from a DOT FAQ on Second Final Rule on Enhancing Airline Passenger Protections, the wave of changes that put the single ticket/single luggage allowance into place in January, 2012:
35. How is the rule applied to domestic single-ticket interline and code-share itineraries?
Example 2 (domestic interline): Passenger books a ticket from Miami, with a stopover in Washington, continuing to New York, and returning to Miami via New York. The ticket indicates the operating carrier’s code and flight number for each segment. Carrier A operates the Miami-Washington and New York-Miami segments, and Carrier B operates the Washington-New York segment. The baggage allowances and fees of Carrier A, the first operating carrier, apply throughout the itinerary.
As for international itins, carriers can apply the first-marketing-carrier rule or MSC:
37. The Department has accepted, with some conditions, the “most significant carrier” (MSC) methodology set forth in IATA Resolution 302. Does section 399.87 permit carriers to use the MSC methodology to determine which carrier’s baggage rules apply to international singleticket interline and code-share itineraries?
The section 399.87 requirement that U.S. and foreign carriers apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger’s itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary does not prohibit carriers from using the “most significant carrier” (MSC) methodology for international flights set forth in IATA Resolution 302, as conditioned by DOT Order 2009-9-20, to determine which carrier’s baggage rules apply to international itineraries. However, as is the case with all IATA resolutions, Resolution 302 is not binding on IATA or non-IATA carriers.
Accordingly, if the first segment of a ticket is not a code-share flight, then the airline operating that segment determines the baggage fees and allowances that apply throughout that passenger’s journey/itinerary. If the first segment of a ticket is a code-share flight, then the marketing carrier for that segment determines the baggage allowances and fees that would apply on all the remaining flights on that ticket. The carrier for the first flight on the ticket is free to apply the MSC approach, as conditioned by DOT. In that event, the MSC carrier’s baggage allowances and fees apply to all segments on that ticket, including the first segment.
I didn't see AS selling OKC-DFW as a single segment. The OP returned and said the first segment is AS-marketed. Thus AS sets the rule - but AA isn't obligated to give credit card waivers or elite waivers.
May 11, 2018, 11:36 pm
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The final rule as issued by DOT provides that the base allowance of the marketing carrier of the first segment is the allowance for all subsequent segments. MSC is irrelevant as no US carrier uses it.
OP believes that the marketing carrier is AS and if it is, it is AS rules which apply.
However, the DOT rule only applies to the base allowance. It does not apply to waivers for status or credit cards. Those "extras" would be up to the operating carrier of each segment and are not DOT-regulated.
OP can obtain an e-ticket receipt from the marketing carrier and that receipt is required to show the baggage allowance for each segment. It will show the charge, if any for each of the first two bags. Better yet, this is what TA's are paid for. Have the TA send it along. Those TA itineraries are worthless.
OP believes that the marketing carrier is AS and if it is, it is AS rules which apply.
However, the DOT rule only applies to the base allowance. It does not apply to waivers for status or credit cards. Those "extras" would be up to the operating carrier of each segment and are not DOT-regulated.
OP can obtain an e-ticket receipt from the marketing carrier and that receipt is required to show the baggage allowance for each segment. It will show the charge, if any for each of the first two bags. Better yet, this is what TA's are paid for. Have the TA send it along. Those TA itineraries are worthless.
May 12, 2018, 10:08 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
It's really no big deal if I have to pay. Company pays for it anyways. Just trying to figure out what the rules really are. Looks like I will have to go to Balboa and ask them what my baggage allowance, if any, really is. Though I suspect I will be paying for the bag on the AA segment as it is the first leg. It is what I expected all along but wasn't sure. Thanks for all the replies. And the whole marketing carrier/operating carrier thing still confuses me. I see it as it is an AS flight number, an AS ticket, it is marketed by AS even though it is operated by AA. Am I correct in this? And if correct, it would be AS baggage fees (no status waiver as not operated by AS). How would AA know what AS baggage fees are and does AA give the money to AS? Never understood how things always have to be written in lawyerese and not plain English so everyone could read it and understand it with no questions.
May 12, 2018, 11:16 am
#15
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
It's really no big deal if I have to pay. Company pays for it anyways. Just trying to figure out what the rules really are. Looks like I will have to go to Balboa and ask them what my baggage allowance, if any, really is. Though I suspect I will be paying for the bag on the AA segment as it is the first leg. It is what I expected all along but wasn't sure. Thanks for all the replies. And the whole marketing carrier/operating carrier thing still confuses me. I see it as it is an AS flight number, an AS ticket, it is marketed by AS even though it is operated by AA. Am I correct in this? And if correct, it would be AS baggage fees (no status waiver as not operated by AS). How would AA know what AS baggage fees are and does AA give the money to AS? Never understood how things always have to be written in lawyerese and not plain English so everyone could read it and understand it with no questions.
“Marketing carrier” = the carrier whose flight number is on your ticket. If it’s an AS flight number, it’s marketed by AS, regardless of the operator. The ticketing carrier is irrelevant with respect to marketing carrier; AA tickets can have AS- (or UA or NZ or any other airline AA has an interline agreement with)-marketed flights and vice versa. The only reason the ticket matters for this purpose is that it says which airline’s bag fees apply for the flights on the ticket.
The bag fees are encoded in the ticket. This is totally routine; the operating carrier can of course see the ticket and whatever bag fee is in the ticket.
You will have a bag fee. The only slight question is whether it’s AA’s bag fees or AS’s bag fees that apply. Both are $25 for the first bag, so if you’re checking one bag, it doesn’t matter anyway. AS is $25 for the second bag; AA is $35 for the second bag. Given that all your flights are marketed by AS, it will probably be AS’s bag fees that apply. But whatever it says on the ticket — whether or not your travel agent lets you see the ticket — is legally binding on all carriers on the ticket as the most they can charge.
Last edited by ashill; May 12, 2018 at 11:36 am