Last edit by: rustykettel
Link to Official AS Blog Post
Major points from this thread and from missydarlin:
Link to share your feedback with Alaska Airlines:
https://www.alaskaair.com/feedback
Discussion in the American Airlines forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...an-2018-a.html
Major points from this thread and from missydarlin:
- Effective Jan 1, 2018, domestic AA-marketed flights will not earn any Mileage Plan miles. AS-marketed, AA-operated codeshares will continue to earn AS miles at the AS earning rate (ie a minimum of one mile earned per mile flown). Domestic flights marketed by other partners (eg BA) and operated by AA will no longer earn AS miles. Post-Jan 1 flights booked prior to Jul 6, 2017 may be submitted for mileage credit.
- International AA flights (including US-Canada and US-Mexico) will continue to earn AS miles. Domestic AA flights which connect to international flights will not earn miles. It will remain impossible to book international AA-operated flights through Alaska to get an AS codeshare or an AS-operated domestic feeder flight.
- Reciprocal elite status benefits (waived checked bag fees, preferred/MCE seat assignments, priority boarding) between AA and AS go away Jan 1, 2018. Seat assignments made prior to Jan 1 for post-Jan 1 flights will remain.
- The reciprocal lounge access arrangment between AA and AS will not change.
- AA will remain a mileage redemption partner of AS with only relatively minor tweaks to the award chart (some increases, some decreases).
Link to share your feedback with Alaska Airlines:
https://www.alaskaair.com/feedback
Discussion in the American Airlines forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...an-2018-a.html
AS and AA Partnership Changes (Effective 1 January 2018)
#391
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TUS/PDX
Programs: WN CP/A-List, AS MVPG75K
Posts: 5,798
I've noticed something really interesting on a couple AA codeshares out of Phoenix lately. All the AA codeshares used to sit well in excess of $1,000. Seems like some are getting repriced now. Of course, there's zero seat availability since AA blocks most of the plane.
PHX-PDX (still one AS nonstop for 3/4 of the year) is priced outrageously high ($400+ in late June, and WN/AA are around $250).
PHX-SEA-PDX (AS to SEA, QX or AS mainline to PDX) was priced between $250 and $550 depending on flights.
PHX-SJC-PDX (AA to SJC, AS to PDX), routinely hits $1,500 o/w in coach.
PHX-SLC-PDX (AA to SLC, AS to PDX), $320, though this is routinely the "cheapest" codeshare I've seen on this route
PHX-SAN-PDX (AA to SAN, AS to PDX), $320
PHX-SNA-PDX (AA to SNA, AS to PDX), $712
PHX-SMF-PDX (AA to SMF, QX to PDX--will there be a crew to fly the Q400?) $320
I priced these out for a one way trip booked ~3 days out around June 27. Looks like they're similarly priced today for July 14. Of course, the WN and AA nonstops are running $200 and WN has some decent times that work with my schedule.
Of course, if I want to fly to CLT or MCO, it costs me almost $2,000 and takes anywhere between 21 and 30 hours, and I get to fly PHX-SEA-ORD-CLT or PHX-SEA/PDX-SFO-MCO.
PHX-PDX (still one AS nonstop for 3/4 of the year) is priced outrageously high ($400+ in late June, and WN/AA are around $250).
PHX-SEA-PDX (AS to SEA, QX or AS mainline to PDX) was priced between $250 and $550 depending on flights.
PHX-SJC-PDX (AA to SJC, AS to PDX), routinely hits $1,500 o/w in coach.
PHX-SLC-PDX (AA to SLC, AS to PDX), $320, though this is routinely the "cheapest" codeshare I've seen on this route
PHX-SAN-PDX (AA to SAN, AS to PDX), $320
PHX-SNA-PDX (AA to SNA, AS to PDX), $712
PHX-SMF-PDX (AA to SMF, QX to PDX--will there be a crew to fly the Q400?) $320
I priced these out for a one way trip booked ~3 days out around June 27. Looks like they're similarly priced today for July 14. Of course, the WN and AA nonstops are running $200 and WN has some decent times that work with my schedule.
Of course, if I want to fly to CLT or MCO, it costs me almost $2,000 and takes anywhere between 21 and 30 hours, and I get to fly PHX-SEA-ORD-CLT or PHX-SEA/PDX-SFO-MCO.
#392
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVPG
Posts: 609
I was also shocked to see AS offering me DL flights on hub routes like PDX-SLC. They don't show up until I click on view by price. But it's bizarre to see any DL flights mixed in, especially on routes that AS flies itself. Oh, and at totally normal prices, too.
#393
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
One thing that talks to the difference in importance of this issue to (the small subset of) AA and AS flyers (represented here on FT) is the fact that, while this will be post 384 in this thread, there are only about 121 in the corresponding thread on AA.
Mostly consistent with what many are saying here.
Cheers.
Mostly consistent with what many are saying here.
Cheers.
#394
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
#395
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,537
#396
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Greer,SC,USA
Posts: 884
I will say this, though; the DOJ has left AS rather in a pickle with the restrictions placed upon it post VX deal. It's not like there are any independent players left with a vast Midwestern network they could plug into because the DOJ let AA buy TWA, Delta suck up Northwest, and United eat Continental, unless you labor under the illusion that Sun Country's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The Northeast and Caribbean would be manageable with a partnership with JetBlue, but that's going to take time and a vast amount of massaging of bruised egos post VX deal. There's no good entry point into the Southeast at all, AirTran having been acquired by the Canyon Blue Borg. In fact, in general, most great growth opportunities are either now legacy fortress hubs or occupied by Southwest.
I'm not sure how AS moves out of the niche it's now in; it's effectively now the mirror image of USAir, circa 1995, and we know how that story ended up. It may take an eventual breakup of the megacarriers to see significant forward progress. While having 10 network carriers that could get you from Raleigh to Los Angeles in 1999* was overkill, having only three and three quarters serious national airlines has been way too much shrinkage in the other direction. AA/TW, US/HP, and DL/NW were completely defensible. It was the CO/UA deal that started the true lunacy; stop that one and things are in an infinitely more rational place.
*US Airways, Delta, United, American, Continental, Northwest, Southwest, TWA, America West, Midway
The Northeast and Caribbean would be manageable with a partnership with JetBlue, but that's going to take time and a vast amount of massaging of bruised egos post VX deal. There's no good entry point into the Southeast at all, AirTran having been acquired by the Canyon Blue Borg. In fact, in general, most great growth opportunities are either now legacy fortress hubs or occupied by Southwest.
I'm not sure how AS moves out of the niche it's now in; it's effectively now the mirror image of USAir, circa 1995, and we know how that story ended up. It may take an eventual breakup of the megacarriers to see significant forward progress. While having 10 network carriers that could get you from Raleigh to Los Angeles in 1999* was overkill, having only three and three quarters serious national airlines has been way too much shrinkage in the other direction. AA/TW, US/HP, and DL/NW were completely defensible. It was the CO/UA deal that started the true lunacy; stop that one and things are in an infinitely more rational place.
*US Airways, Delta, United, American, Continental, Northwest, Southwest, TWA, America West, Midway
#397
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,669
(2) AS is a much healthier carrier with a much better reputation than US ever had.
AS can still make a good go of it, even not being all things to all people. Their key hubs are more recession resistant and more recovery resilient than just about any other airline's hubs. They also have the cash cow known as Alaska, the state. They have limited exposure in most of their new markets - they don't work, they pull out, with really no capital expense wasted. Furthermore, they still have a mileage-based program.
I don't quite get how AS is the mirror image of US ca. 1995. HP acquired US, and then faux US acquired AA, with HP management running the show. So, HP, a thrice-bankrupt airline, is now one of the world's major carriers, with AA lipstick.
#398
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Programs: Hilton Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 2,363
Combo of Alaska and AA gave us everything we needed.
#399
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,537
Yes, we are concerned, because Alaska hosed us. The whole merger with Virgin America really screwed us up. It brings nothing to flyers in PDX, except headaches of now searching out a new carrier for our flights to the east, which will have an effect of our west coast flying as well.
Combo of Alaska and AA gave us everything we needed.
Combo of Alaska and AA gave us everything we needed.
This changes that for us. While I can definitely see even more impact for someone like you in PDX, it changes our landscape as well to shooting for MVP 75K and falling back to AA Lifetime Plat. Not our ideal, but better than trying to do all of it on AA plus getting some sort of AS status.
Cheers.
#400
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 205
How does AS compare to B6 with respect to fleet size, pax shipped around, gross sales, income, etc.? Comparable?
#401
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,954
In 2016, AS had 32.8 billion RPMs (excluding Horizon/Skywest), VX 12.1 billion (44.9 billion between the two), and B6 45.6 billion (source: BTS).
You can look up their revenue from their quarterly investor statements.
I'm a little surprised at how comparable they are.
#402
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 205
From Wikipedia, which I'd trust at least approximately for the basic numbers, AS+VX have a fleet of 217 (737s and A320 series) plus 78 Q400s and E175s operated by Horizon and Skywest (about 40,093 seats total -- uncertainty because I don't know how the different configurations of 739s are distributed at the moment). B6 has 233 A320s, A321s, and E190s (32,337-35,660 total seats depending on how many of each configuration).
In 2016, AS had 32.8 billion RPMs (excluding Horizon/Skywest), VX 12.1 billion (44.9 billion between the two), and B6 45.6 billion (source: BTS).
You can look up their revenue from their quarterly investor statements.
I'm a little surprised at how comparable they are.
In 2016, AS had 32.8 billion RPMs (excluding Horizon/Skywest), VX 12.1 billion (44.9 billion between the two), and B6 45.6 billion (source: BTS).
You can look up their revenue from their quarterly investor statements.
I'm a little surprised at how comparable they are.
This strengthens my view that AS and B6 are basically Coastal Mirror Copies of eachother: Each serves "their" high $$$ millennial cities (AS West Coast, B6 East Coast), each has significant deals with international-only airlines, and each doesn't bother with the center of the country.
#403
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: Alaska 100K - MM, defender of shoes on the carpeted bulkhead 4ever, AA LT PLT, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia
Posts: 7,448
Oh, I hear you. As AA EXP for like 12 years now, this helped a lot as flying to Hawai'i and PNW are big for us, and crediting AS to AA was necessary. Was planning to remain EXP for the foreseeable future.
This changes that for us. While I can definitely see even more impact for someone like you in PDX, it changes our landscape as well to shooting for MVP 75K and falling back to AA Lifetime Plat. Not our ideal, but better than trying to do all of it on AA plus getting some sort of AS status.
Cheers.
This changes that for us. While I can definitely see even more impact for someone like you in PDX, it changes our landscape as well to shooting for MVP 75K and falling back to AA Lifetime Plat. Not our ideal, but better than trying to do all of it on AA plus getting some sort of AS status.
Cheers.
I look at the ticket prices in and out of the WAS airports every week and while connecting through MCI or ORD would save me 40 bucks, the lack of any UG on the AA leg or the amount of time I would spend making the connection is/was not worth it for us.
The ability to redeposit tickets into my wallet, make changes at the last minute, actually get the lowest fare guarantee, redeposit awards at will and for free are definitely worth our AS loyalty.
One thing we have one in the past, and yes, it sucks, is to buy two tickets - take AS to one AA hub and then start the next journey on AA. Not sure how that works for the rest of you , but I rarely find starting in SEA saves me a ton of money.
just my .02 worth.
lala
#404
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,537
Was an EXP for the similar amount of time and 75K or Gold since 2001. We (TH and myself) qualify based on AS metal alone, so we're okay. Anything else we fly = AA, BA or OW we still buy through AA or change our number to AA after ticketing (awards). As long was we can still get preferred seating, some semblance of redeemable miles on AA and lounge access. We do live in Seattle, so that helps. If this changes, we'll figure something else out.
For us, we'll fly AA/BA/OW for flights that we can't get to with AS (just as always), but we'll credit to AS since there is really no reason to credit to AA. We don't need miles there, and will use existing LT status, so no value in crediting to AA. If we credit to AS, then we need to fly fewer flights (especially in F/P) for 75K status.
Cheers.
#405
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SMF/HPN
Programs: DL DM, AS MVP, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, SPG Gold, TSA PreCheck
Posts: 464
I think Alaska made a HUGE mistake with the VX merger. Growing pains aside, it's not the same airline that it was 2 years ago and I'm sure the AS lifers would even say that it's not the airline that they flew 20 years ago.
As an AS MVP with the occasional AA flight (as in maybe once or twice a year), I'm pretty bummed out by this change. While AA is not my first choice, it was nice when I flew AA to have complimentary access to MCE seats 24 hours before departure and the free checked bag.
I do believe as an MVP though, this will thin the MP elite herd and bring back my SMF-SEA upgrades that I have missed over the past year. This change will unfortunately hurt my upgrade chances on DL (as a Diamond) since I believe that many PNW flyers will shift over to DL.
This is a lose-lose situation for Alaska. They haven't really cut the partnership (with international travel) but have made it so complicated that people won't waste their time trying to figure it out.
As an AS MVP with the occasional AA flight (as in maybe once or twice a year), I'm pretty bummed out by this change. While AA is not my first choice, it was nice when I flew AA to have complimentary access to MCE seats 24 hours before departure and the free checked bag.
I do believe as an MVP though, this will thin the MP elite herd and bring back my SMF-SEA upgrades that I have missed over the past year. This change will unfortunately hurt my upgrade chances on DL (as a Diamond) since I believe that many PNW flyers will shift over to DL.
This is a lose-lose situation for Alaska. They haven't really cut the partnership (with international travel) but have made it so complicated that people won't waste their time trying to figure it out.