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AS and AA partnership changes 1 January 2018

AS and AA partnership changes 1 January 2018

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Old Jul 7, 17, 5:22 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: rustykettel
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Link to Official AS Blog Post

Major points from this thread and from missydarlin:

  • Effective Jan 1, 2018, domestic AA-marketed flights will not earn any Mileage Plan miles. AS-marketed, AA-operated codeshares will continue to earn AS miles at the AS earning rate (ie a minimum of one mile earned per mile flown). Domestic flights marketed by other partners (eg BA) and operated by AA will no longer earn AS miles. Post-Jan 1 flights booked prior to Jul 6, 2017 may be submitted for mileage credit.
  • International AA flights (including US-Canada and US-Mexico) will continue to earn AS miles. Domestic AA flights which connect to international flights will not earn miles. It will remain impossible to book international AA-operated flights through Alaska to get an AS codeshare or an AS-operated domestic feeder flight.
  • Reciprocal elite status benefits (waived checked bag fees, preferred/MCE seat assignments, priority boarding) between AA and AS go away Jan 1, 2018. Seat assignments made prior to Jan 1 for post-Jan 1 flights will remain.
  • The reciprocal lounge access arrangment between AA and AS will not change.
  • AA will remain a mileage redemption partner of AS with only relatively minor tweaks to the award chart (some increases, some decreases).

Link to share your feedback with Alaska Airlines:

https://www.alaskaair.com/feedback

Discussion in the American Airlines forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...an-2018-a.html
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Old Jul 10, 17, 6:01 pm
  #346  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by nearlysober View Post
I'm a little unclear how it works... does it just mean the flight has to have an AS code share, or does it have to be purchased through AS?

I travel a bit for work and we use a crummy internal system that won't always let me book AS. So if I took a flight through that system, and it has an AA flight#... will I be eligible for miles if it has an AS code share? Or since it's booking "directly" through AA will I not get any miles, even if AS flies it?

I really hope they're able to clearly publish it through qualifying flight #s to simplify things.
You don't have to purchase through AS, but you have to purchase the AS flight number, not the AA flight number. You won't get miles if you buy the flight with an AA flight number just because AS sells tickets on the same flight.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 6:13 pm
  #347  
 
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Originally Posted by Aliquot View Post
You don't have to purchase through AS, but you have to purchase the AS flight number, not the AA flight number. You won't get miles if you buy the flight with an AA flight number just because AS sells tickets on the same flight.
Wonder how much money they will have to spend on customer service responding to customers not paying attention to these details submitting their missing credit requests.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 6:46 pm
  #348  
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
I 100% agree that gates at SFO are an issue, but AS/VX still has room to grow. VX is slated to take over the AA gates in T2 (I think AA has primary use of 6 of the 14 until their space in T1 is opened) and has been using more of the space recently (for example VX has been using 59, which I think is new). I don't see AA growing at SFO, If anything I think they are the odd man out, especially losing access to the AS network. So short term VX has room to grow.

T1 Area B (when done in mid 2019) will have 17 gates which is enough to free up more space in the South International terminal, and with AA moving there, will also free up the four gates that AA is currently using in gate area C (where DL is). If AS/VX grows once T1, Area C is opened, expect them to take part of the spruced up area C that AA will not have. Access to 14-18 gates is more than enough to run a reasonable sized domestic operation.
That is correct keep in mind with T1 is that it is only partially closed with WN and F9 utilizing the other half of T1 right now (9 gates). So when 17 gates open up, 9 is basically accounted for with WN/F9, then AA moves over probably taking around 8 gates for themselves (less than the 10 they currently have) swallowing up all 17.

AS will take over T2 but I am not confident they will be able to take the C gates when AA vacates as I think those will probably go to B6, Sun Country (domestic airlines currently stuck in boarding area A) and DL or some new domestic entrant that has been waiting to get gate space in SFO.

This will limit AS's growth until at least 2024 when T1 is complete, but remember with T1's current plan 3 or 4 gates will be mainly targeted as a pseudo expansion of boarding area A designed for widebodies.

At best I think AS will only have around 150-160 daily departures. Not something to sneeze at, but not enough to give UA a run for its money or to land large corporate contracts like they get in SEA.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 6:55 pm
  #349  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by gobeavs8 View Post
FACT. PDX-DFW is twice Daily. Also, i don't think it would be hard for AS to add frequency if they needed to.
False. PDX-DFW is one flight plus a seasonal red-eye. It comes and it goes like the wind.

You'll note that on Jan 2nd, there is one flight a day from PDX-DFW.

The ONLY way anything like this works for connections is to maintain at least a morning AM flight and an afternoon PM flight between PDX-DFW and PDX-ORD and at least a once daily PDX-PHL flight, and hope that the connecting AA flight is included in the code-share.

And, for what it is worth the announcement on codeshares indicated no ability for codeshares in PHL. It cited ORD, DFW, and LAX.

Today I can fly PDX-PHL and then connect and book that entire trip to Alaska. I do not need to maintain a second AA account, or a Delta account. Starting Jan 1, Alaska is dumping me. Basically, Alaska does not want my business.

The problem can be solved easily by maintaining Alaska codeshares on pretty much all ORD/DFW/PHL connecting flights and charging a reasonable (competitive) fare for the 2nd leg codeshare. Many of the codeshares right now are priced so out of market it is not even funny.

Furthermore, as I am pushed out of the Alaska partner network, why stay locally with Alaska? Alaska was loyal to me, I was loyal to Alaska. But since Mileage Plan is worth less to me next time I might choose United on PDX-SFO because I am stucky flying United on PDX-Providence or something and I am building miles and status with United. So overall this weakens my drive to pledge loyalty to Alaska

Last edited by WebTraveler; Jul 10, 17 at 7:17 pm
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Old Jul 10, 17, 6:57 pm
  #350  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Originally Posted by diver858 View Post
Why do you say this? AA apparently got tired of AS not buying the cow, getting the milk for free; As AS has partner arrangements with most other OW carriers, it should still be possible to strike a deal that Parker would accept, AS could live with.

Any such formal relationship would likely be at the expense of some existing partnerships, something ALK beancounters should be able to quantify.
I disagree with your analogy. The relationship with Alaska brings AA a lot of business. If I didn't get Alaska miles I may not (probably not ) fly AA. That was the beauty. AA got me as a customer that they may not have ordinarily had. Bringing a huge stack of business was something Alaska provided to AA.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 7:07 pm
  #351  
 
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
I disagree with your analogy. The relationship with Alaska brings AA a lot of business. If I didn't get Alaska miles I may not (probably not ) fly AA. That was the beauty. AA got me as a customer that they may not have ordinarily had. Bringing a huge stack of business was something Alaska provided to AA.
I don't always fly AA, but when I do, the ability to earn AS miles and the elite benefits were a factor in choosing that flight.

I already have too many AA miles; unless the price is right or the routing perfect, I won't pick AA for revenue travel in the future.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 7:15 pm
  #352  
 
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff View Post
I don't always fly AA, but when I do, the ability to earn AS miles and the elite benefits were a factor in choosing that flight.

I already have too many AA miles; unless the price is right or the routing perfect, I won't pick AA for revenue travel in the future.
You get what I am saying exactly. For whatever reason we have been told by Alaska and AA (either together or separately) that my business is not valued.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 7:26 pm
  #353  
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
False. PDX-DFW is one flight plus a seasonal red-eye. It comes and it goes like the wind.
Seasonal is a bit misleading. The second flight returns in March, so it seems that it will operate 10 months/year. That's hardly "comes and it goes like the wind." There also is the new PDX-DAL flight in that market.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 8:04 pm
  #354  
 
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Originally Posted by dayone View Post
Seasonal is a bit misleading. The second flight returns in March, so it seems that it will operate 10 months/year. That's hardly "comes and it goes like the wind." There also is the new PDX-DAL flight in that market.
and a PDX-DAL flight does nothing for connections, which is the whole subject in the first place. It is a seasonal flight and it does come and go.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 8:13 pm
  #355  
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
I disagree with your analogy. The relationship with Alaska brings AA a lot of business. If I didn't get Alaska miles I may not (probably not ) fly AA. That was the beauty. AA got me as a customer that they may not have ordinarily had. Bringing a huge stack of business was something Alaska provided to AA.
True, though AA holds the card that it's not AS's destination. So, even after terminating the agreement, they have a ~33% chance that you're going to fly them anyway. In LAX there's a chance that you'll fly them anyway and then some.


Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
The problem can be solved easily by maintaining Alaska codeshares on pretty much all ORD/DFW/PHL connecting flights and charging a reasonable (competitive) fare for the 2nd leg codeshare.
Except they can't. They accepted as terms with DOJ that they would not codeshare to AA's hubs.


Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
Furthermore, as I am pushed out of the Alaska partner network, why stay locally with Alaska? Alaska was loyal to me, I was loyal to Alaska. But since Mileage Plan is worth less to me next time I might choose United on PDX-SFO because I am stucky flying United on PDX-Providence or something and I am building miles and status with United. So overall this weakens my drive to pledge loyalty to Alaska
Yes. I'm sure United (SFO) and Delta (SEA) were very happy with this development. While I think AA stands to win some, UA and DL stand to win more.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 8:30 pm
  #356  
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
It is a seasonal flight and it does come and go.
As you wish.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 8:32 pm
  #357  
 
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Originally Posted by WebTraveler View Post
And, for what it is worth the announcement on codeshares indicated no ability for codeshares in PHL. It cited ORD, DFW, and LAX.
Has AS put its code on many beyond-PHL AA flights since the AAUS merger? Obviously PHL wasn't an AS partner hub until the merger, unlike ORD, DFW, and LAX.

The problem can be solved easily by maintaining Alaska codeshares on pretty much all ORD/DFW/PHL connecting flights and charging a reasonable (competitive) fare for the 2nd leg codeshare. Many of the codeshares right now are priced so out of market it is not even funny.
I agree, and I very much hope AS does this.

Originally Posted by channa View Post
Except they can't. They accepted as terms with DOJ that they would not codeshare to AA's hubs.
I read WebTraveler's comment as referring to AS*/AA codeshares beyond ORD/DFW/PHL, not on the SEA/PDX-ORD/DFW/PHL flights.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 8:44 pm
  #358  
 
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
Has AS put its code on many beyond-PHL AA flights since the AAUS merger? Obviously PHL wasn't an AS partner hub until the merger, unlike ORD, DFW, and LAX.

There were at least a few. I know, for example, that I flew SEA-PHL-BNA with PHL-BNA on a codeshare just a few months ago.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 9:16 pm
  #359  
 
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Originally Posted by GSP flyer View Post
What AS would give for the old TW to still be around. That STL hub would be a perfect fit for most of AS's new troubles.
AS could start a STL hub itself. It could start out small, like connecting only the hub and focus cities on the West Coast with an equal number of cities east. For example, SEA PDX SFO SJC LAX SAN to STL then STL to 6 cities, like BDL HPN LGA DCA PIT PHL. It already has traffic from those 6 cities west of STL. From there, it can grow more, perhaps by adding 5 cities west and 5 cities east of STL using Skywest or Horizon.

The hard part would be WN competition at STL as well as DCA and LGA slots.
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Old Jul 10, 17, 9:22 pm
  #360  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Originally Posted by formeraa View Post
The thing to remember is this is a tiny blip for AA (very, very small percentage of total travelers). It is a much bigger deal for AS, as many of AS travelers depended on the AA and DL agreements when traveling outside of AS's markets. Actually, for AS in SEA, it may mean some large defections to DL (who now is able to single-handedly satisfy most SEA travel needs).
It may be a rounding error for AA because the biggest effects on AA might be in two stations, SEA and PDX.

I've thought about it more and I don't intend to defect to DL. Instead, I plan to use very little AA and then divide up travel between AS and DL and the others.

For the SEA hub, AS is stronger than DL with some notable exceptions. To smaller places, like DAY or GSP as well as SEA-JFK, where AS has a terrible schedule of one red eye eastbound.
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