PDXPremier

So I guess this will be the first AS metal to LGA, correct? Those of us in PDX can now fly to LGA with a connection in DAL

sfozrhfco

Loads improved as once WN was able to add those cities from DAL, a fare war started with AA and the yields went down a lot as well. It would be interesting to see how much yields have improved from the low point.

PV_Premier

Not sure I would be real jazzed about the idea of what amounts to a circuitous transcon on an E175 when PDX/SEA-EWR is an option, but to each their own.

I didn't see the schedule published, are these early morning departures and mid-day returns? I'm assumign SJC/SAN/PDX are 1x daily? Maybe I mis-read the announcement.

dayone

Not shocking at all. It was a placeholder.

Bretmd

this is interesting. Hopefully AS elites will get more benefits when flying on VX before they start this route.

steex

You are correct, and all of those are E75 (as is the one AS-branded SEA trip).

AS 3360 SEA 09:45 DAL 15:45 E75
VX 1770 SEA 13:28 DAL 19:43 320
VX 1765 DAL 10:15 SEA 12:43 320
AS 3379 DAL 15:39 SEA 17:54 E75

AS 3308 PDX 06:00 DAL 11:44 E75
AS 3307 DAL 10:35 PDX 12:40 E75

AS 3328 SJC 14:40 DAL 19:59 E75
AS 3329 DAL 13:25 SJC 15:15 E75

AS 3306 SAN 07:45 DAL 12:45 E75
AS 3305 DAL 20:39 SAN 21:54 E75

eponymous_coward

https://www.alaskaair.com/content/tr...nefit-schedule

VX 1765 (DAL-SEA) and 1770 (SEA-DAL) are bookable 8/27.

(looks like the VX planes are going SFO/LAX-SEA-DAL, which is pretty obvious. No Airbus base in SEA yet.)

steex

The schedule could also potentially work as a DAL-SEA-DAL turn with 45 minutes on the ground in Seattle.

eponymous_coward

That's, uh... REALLY tight as a 45 minute turn given 30 minute boarding times (and flatly impossible with AS standard 40 minute boarding times).

qukslvr619

It's an interesting strategy that AS seems to be taking on with respect to adding service in existing WN west coast markets. The majority of adds, especially out of SAN, are 1x on E175. In a prior experiment in 2006, UA tried to build a RJ mini-hub out of SAT operating nonstops in markets WN was carrying a good amount of traffic but serving at that time as one-stop. For example, SATMSY. The theory was that people would pay a premium to travel on the nonstop. Eventually they ended up matching WN, the traffic didn't really shift, mostly because UA had such a token Texas presence at that time, and eventually the mini-hub got axed. A few years later, ExpressJet started branded operations using the same strategy, but we know what happened with that.

A comparison of the times (only listed the departure times)

WN DALPDX 1205 PDXDAL 1400
AS DALPDX 1035 PDXDAL 0600


WN DALSJC 2010 SJCDAL 1520
AS DALSJC 1325 SJCDAL 1440

WN DALSAN 0750 SANDAL 0630
WN DALSAN 1235 SANDAL 1210
WN DALSAN 1935 SANDAL 1625
AS DALSAN 2039 SANDAL 0745

VX DALSEA 1015 SEADAL 0945
AS DALSEA 1539 SEADAL 1328
WN DALSEA 1030 SEADAL 1510

It doesn't appear that AS is scheduling flights directly on top of what WN and I am very interested to see how they price these DAL markets---either matching WN or pricing lower.

The one thing that I wonder about though is, even with AA/AS having a partnership, AA is very defensive of DFW. I don't expect that AA and AS will go head to head undercutting each other, but AA will more than likely respond to any efforts WN makes to lower their DAL fares because it directly impacts AA at DFW. So if WN prices $300 on SANDAL in an effort to match/undercut AS and AA is priced at $400, AA is probably going to match WN to avoid losing the customer to WN and DAL. But when AA lowers SANDFW to $300, has 9 flights to choose from, will that end up cannibalizing AS?

Having these flights on E175s can be a mixed blessing. From a comfort perspective one could argue that its a wash (or superior depending on what you prefer). But from a pricing/rev management/yield standpoint, with one E175 you are somewhat limited. AA/WN can operate a 150 seat 737 and offer 40 seats at the lowest discount fare which accounts for about 26% of the available seats, but 40 seats on an E175 represents 57% of available seats so they would need to break even on the remaining 30 seats.

Madone59

DAL-SAN is great. Another ^^ for new SAN routes Alaska. Now, can we get ANYTHING to CLT please?

Fanjet

But if AS can't even make the 9th largest market out of DAL work with mainline aircraft, and is decreasing their seat availablity on the route by nearly one-half....

eponymous_coward

My experience is in competitive nonstop markets (SEA-LAS/PHX/SJC/SAN) they try very very hard to match WN fares. They have managed to beat WN off routes (SEA-GEG, PDX-GEG, BOI-GEG), though sometimes the bear gets them (they tried SJC-AUS with mainline and folded it some years ago, now it's back with E75s).

I don't expect them to beat WN off of any routes out of DAL (ha!) but they have been stubborn and determined at making SJC and SAN into focus cities. I expect them to try and give DAL some time and love as a market.

If they can't make large markets out of DAL work at all, then they need to re-evaluate DAL as a whole (which has been my argument all along: DAL is the problem if they can't make LGA/DCA-DAL work with decent frequencies).

Redeploying those LGA/DCA frequencies into SJC/SAN/PDX/SEA isn't going to cut it (it's too much), and running 12 or so frequencies out of 2 DAL gates when they could just consolidate operations at DFW doesn't make a lot of sense. I also find it hard to believe that 1xDAL from SEA/PDX/SAN/SJC is going to be spectacularly better than 3xDCA/LGA when WN is even more dominant and established at SJC than DCA, yet isn't interested in more than 1x for SJC. Same with PDX and even SEA. More frequencies at SAN... maybe? Except the problem is that the AS Circle of Death at SAN is going to run out of room at some point...

AS has a reasonable portfolio of destinations at DAL that somewhat resembles their other focus cities, SAN and SJC. Serving two major US cities (NYC and WAS) with reasonable frequencies to go along with two other large metros (SFO/LAX) is rational since the other option AS likes to do to assault WN in their strongholds (fly to Mexico and Hawaii with 1x frequencies) is simply not an option when it comes to DAL. Neither is trying to do in Texas what they are trying in CA (intra-state or second/third tier cities). We saw how that worked out for VX on DAL-AUS. Not well.

They should give it a while to work, which I suspect they will, and if in the end it turns out not to work, I would imagine they would fold up DAL and the slots, and move SFO/LAX back to DFW like VX had before DAL (and maybe move the SJC/SAN 1x daily there, depending, though they could just let AA handle the focus cities and JUST do SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX, and redeploy SJC/SAN resources to more interesting nonstop options that do NOT compete with AA AND WN for the Dallas metro market).

oswaldjacoby

Kind of interesting how the media accepted the claim in the press release that this is an expansion at Love Field--when it is actually a very significant contraction. While there are more cities served, there is no increase in flights--But the aircraft changes are a marked decrease in the number of seats. It is probably a wise move, but this is clearly a pull back from Love Field, not an expansion.

bradleyl12

How is Alaska going to codeshare with AA at DCA if they are in separate piers? I assume that VX and AA will combine at gate 24 in center pier right?