AKL // PPT Scheduling Observations and Questions
May 14, 2008, 3:01 pm
#1
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AKL // PPT Scheduling Observations and Questions
About a month or two ago I had checked the NZ schedule for AKL-PPT around mid-July. Of the twice weekly AKL-PPT vv I noticed NZ040 on Saturday at 00:30 (12:30 AM) arriving at 07:45. On the return I noticed the Friday NZ041 leaving at 09:00 and arriving AKL at 13:05. (these flights operate another single day of the week each, but they're unchanged).
Now, those flights have been moved forward about 5 hours. AKL-PPT leaving Friday (instead of Saturday) at 19:30 and arrives PPT at 02:30 AM and the return departs on Friday still, but at 03:45 AM (instead of 9am) and arrives AKL at 07:50 AM. I assume this is one a/c that gets turned around so obviously NZ40 and 41 will change together as a pair.
So... how often do these flights change? It could wreak havoc on someone (like me) looking to nest such a flight within something like an RTW and other domestic hops around NZ. Are these new times here to stay? The problem with shifting this schedule is that it is only operated twice a week. If you have huge scheduling problems because of a large (say, 5 hour) change, it's not like you can just grab the next day's flight, as there often is no next day's flight.
Second... don't these new times seem much more horrible? What's the point of arriving at 2:30am rather than 7:45am. Seems like a miserable night. No ongoing Air Tahiti flights for hours and way too late to make a hotel seem worth the $$. I can't imagine PPT airport is the nicest place to sit around for several hours in the middle of the night. On the return... also seems strange to depart 03:45. That's too late in the night to feel like a late night flight, but too early to make it seem like its worth it for a hotel that night. Do you just take the last Air Tahiti flight into PPT and then sit around for hours waiting for your 3:45am flight? What a way to book-end a trip in paradise, two miserable nights in PPT with little-to-no sleep.
I suppose they're only horrible for us passengers, they're great for NZ. Now they can use an aircraft solely between 7:30pm and 7:50am when it likely was not in use... as opposed to waiting until 12:30am to depart after sitting around for hours and having it in use well into the normal daytime (1pm). Probably frees up an entire 763.
Now, those flights have been moved forward about 5 hours. AKL-PPT leaving Friday (instead of Saturday) at 19:30 and arrives PPT at 02:30 AM and the return departs on Friday still, but at 03:45 AM (instead of 9am) and arrives AKL at 07:50 AM. I assume this is one a/c that gets turned around so obviously NZ40 and 41 will change together as a pair.
So... how often do these flights change? It could wreak havoc on someone (like me) looking to nest such a flight within something like an RTW and other domestic hops around NZ. Are these new times here to stay? The problem with shifting this schedule is that it is only operated twice a week. If you have huge scheduling problems because of a large (say, 5 hour) change, it's not like you can just grab the next day's flight, as there often is no next day's flight.
Second... don't these new times seem much more horrible? What's the point of arriving at 2:30am rather than 7:45am. Seems like a miserable night. No ongoing Air Tahiti flights for hours and way too late to make a hotel seem worth the $$. I can't imagine PPT airport is the nicest place to sit around for several hours in the middle of the night. On the return... also seems strange to depart 03:45. That's too late in the night to feel like a late night flight, but too early to make it seem like its worth it for a hotel that night. Do you just take the last Air Tahiti flight into PPT and then sit around for hours waiting for your 3:45am flight? What a way to book-end a trip in paradise, two miserable nights in PPT with little-to-no sleep.
I suppose they're only horrible for us passengers, they're great for NZ. Now they can use an aircraft solely between 7:30pm and 7:50am when it likely was not in use... as opposed to waiting until 12:30am to depart after sitting around for hours and having it in use well into the normal daytime (1pm). Probably frees up an entire 763.
May 14, 2008, 3:06 pm
#2
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PPT schedules do tend to move around a little bit (say a couple of changes each year) depending on aircraft availability. It is annoying I agree (I've also been victim of PPT changes although once it was to my benefit changing to a better time for me).
If you are on a RTW than any affected connecting flights can also be changed.
If you are on a RTW than any affected connecting flights can also be changed.
May 14, 2008, 3:52 pm
#3
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True, but it gets complicated if RTW is in/out of AKL and trying to also nest a domestic AKL-ZQN in there as well. I was already contemplating ZQN-AKL a day early rather trying to same-day it onward to PPT in case of ZQN weather problems in July... perhaps the fact that schedules change a bit on this route is enough to tip the scales and make it the sound decision.
May 14, 2008, 5:59 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2006
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One of the major reasons for the new schedule change is crew fatigue. We cabin crew operate this trip (AKL-PPT-AKL) as a turnaround ("double banger"), which is a duty time of 13h 50.
Since we started doing them as a turnaround a couple years back, we have found them extremely fatiguing to the point we feel they could impact on flight safety. We've been filling out fatigue reports, which do get reported to the NZ CAA, so Air NZ really has to do something about them.
The majority of fatigue reports have been concerned with the all night trip (report time of 2345, signoff 1335 the next day), and Air NZ has managed to juggle the schedules to accommodate a schedule that's slightly easier in terms of Circadian rhythms, etc. They are unwilling to overnight us in PPT, as they used to, as they claim the costs are prohibitive to the route which is apparently unprofitable.
Since we started doing them as a turnaround a couple years back, we have found them extremely fatiguing to the point we feel they could impact on flight safety. We've been filling out fatigue reports, which do get reported to the NZ CAA, so Air NZ really has to do something about them.
The majority of fatigue reports have been concerned with the all night trip (report time of 2345, signoff 1335 the next day), and Air NZ has managed to juggle the schedules to accommodate a schedule that's slightly easier in terms of Circadian rhythms, etc. They are unwilling to overnight us in PPT, as they used to, as they claim the costs are prohibitive to the route which is apparently unprofitable.
May 14, 2008, 6:43 pm
#5
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This is concerning. The latest schedule changes were not for both days the route operates. Why is it okay one day and unsafe on the other day? Furthermore, the new schedule is similar to past schedules. If the past schedule changes were also safety related then why revert for a period only to change back again later?
May 14, 2008, 7:23 pm
#6
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This is a personal account and my views and opinions DON'T represent those of my employer.
Posts: 450
The following is the information we've received:
Effective 02/06/08 the new timings of this TOD are - 19:30 departure
from AKL and 08:05 back to AKL.
• The Sunday flight timings (day flight) remains the same.
• Effective November 2008, both flights will be retimed to day time
duties.
Effective 02/06/08 the new timings of this TOD are - 19:30 departure
from AKL and 08:05 back to AKL.
• The Sunday flight timings (day flight) remains the same.
• Effective November 2008, both flights will be retimed to day time
duties.
May 14, 2008, 7:30 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Programs: Etihad Guest
Posts: 1,549
The airline is being disingenuous in claiming the route is unprofitable - when did you last see many empty Business Class seats? It has the best yield potential of any Pacific island route, and being a leisure market codeshared with TN you will notice that NZ has snaffled the easier-to-sell weekend flights. It beggars belief that NZ continue to cover up and conceal the catastrophic yields to China while persistently talking down their PPT route.
Bear in mind too that the Sunday flight not only operates at more desirable time, it also often is operated by 777s, which makes for a much better experience.
Maybe if they actually sold the 25th and 26th Business seats on the 777 (which they don't, in case they switch to a 767) or any of the 18 Premium Economy seats, or the 211th to 269th Economy seats they might actually earn more revenue. It's a self-inflicted obstacle to only put up for sale 24 of your 44 premium seats and 210 of your 269 economy ones.
nzcrew will instantly recognise who I am from an airliners.net cross posting, but last month my family and I were ticketed by NZ on TN flights to PPT (which earn no points even when booked and ticketed by NZ) because the Sunday NZ-operated flight was supposedly full. Then when we got there we discovered that the Sunday flight had been switched a month earlier to a 777, but with the 25th and 26th Business Premier seats and all 18 Premium Economy seats not put up for sale.
If NZ had sold the inventory which they had to us they would have avoided paying TN nearly $1000 per passenger for their Business Class seats.
Bear in mind too that the Sunday flight not only operates at more desirable time, it also often is operated by 777s, which makes for a much better experience.
Maybe if they actually sold the 25th and 26th Business seats on the 777 (which they don't, in case they switch to a 767) or any of the 18 Premium Economy seats, or the 211th to 269th Economy seats they might actually earn more revenue. It's a self-inflicted obstacle to only put up for sale 24 of your 44 premium seats and 210 of your 269 economy ones.
nzcrew will instantly recognise who I am from an airliners.net cross posting, but last month my family and I were ticketed by NZ on TN flights to PPT (which earn no points even when booked and ticketed by NZ) because the Sunday NZ-operated flight was supposedly full. Then when we got there we discovered that the Sunday flight had been switched a month earlier to a 777, but with the 25th and 26th Business Premier seats and all 18 Premium Economy seats not put up for sale.
If NZ had sold the inventory which they had to us they would have avoided paying TN nearly $1000 per passenger for their Business Class seats.
May 14, 2008, 9:20 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper midwest
Programs: Delta Pb Medallion
Posts: 608
The following is the information we've received:
Effective 02/06/08 the new timings of this TOD are - 19:30 departure
from AKL and 08:05 back to AKL.
• The Sunday flight timings (day flight) remains the same.
• Effective November 2008, both flights will be retimed to day time
duties.
Effective 02/06/08 the new timings of this TOD are - 19:30 departure
from AKL and 08:05 back to AKL.
• The Sunday flight timings (day flight) remains the same.
• Effective November 2008, both flights will be retimed to day time
duties.
If both will be "retimed to day time" I assume that means the 17:00 arrival. Still rough. Last Air Tahiti flight to Bora Bora is 18:30 leaving little room for error... and you're not in your hotel room until 8pm or later, losing a day.
I actually thought the 00:30 to 07:45 was great timing for vacationers (if you fly J and can sleep) as you get a solid full first day at your destination.