Talisman

Useful site, lots of information, thanks to everyone who contributes. This is my first post.

Just received my first statement covering flights since the KLM/AF merger. Flew KL4102 KUL/AMS, C, during August. Booked by agent as a KLM flight, boarding card says 'sold as KL4102'. I am an FB Gold member.

Flight appears on statement as:

MAS 016 KUL AMS C 9,537 (award miles)

There are no level miles (I was expecting 9,537). There are no 'special club bonus miles'.

Flight is operated by MH, not a Skyteam member, but a KLM partner. Unless this statement is incorrect, it seems that even though you choose a KLM flight from their timetable (so that you earn the status for next year), get a KLM ticket, pay KLM, you do not get any level miles.

Is this correct, or a mistake? I have checked several other threads on the board, and the question has been asked, but until now I did not see any evidence from flyers.

I also saw this post, from a reference,
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=25

So I thought I would post my experience.

Thanks again for all the effort provided by flyers.

Talisman

pmcg

Seems to be correct according to this on the KLM web site for MH.

Talisman

But it wasn't an MH flight, it was a KL flight, KL4102. The rules on the website do not state that some KL flights will not earn level miles. In fact, they imply that all KL flights will earn level miles:

http://www.klm.com/nl_en/index.jsp (FB terms & conditions)

"2.5. All scheduled Air France, KLM and SkyTeam operated flights, including flights with a Air France or KLM flight number showing the AF or KL designated code, qualify for Level- and Award Miles accumulation. Flights operated by
Airline Partners, other than SkyTeam qualify for Award Miles only. Level- and Award Miles accumulation may be reduced or excluded on certain booking classes or fare types on Air France, KLM, SkyTeam- or Airline Partner’s operated flights as specified in Flying Blue Communication. Excluded are the
following fare types: Flight Award travel, travel industry reduced rates, free or non-revenue tickets, military or government tickets. Non public fares are not eligible for mileage accumulation."

They do state, as you point out, that MH flights, such as, say, MH 4, KUL/LHR, which is not a KL flight because it is not an "included flight with an AF or KL code", and not in the KLM timetable (and not therefore a flight that a KLM customer seeking to maintain loyalty could be expected to choose) does not qualify for level miles.

But do I take it that your reading is that irrespective of whether the flight has a KL code, the opportunity to earn level miles depends not on whether there is a KL designation, but merely who operates the flight? If so, why do they include the qualifier:

"including flights with a Air France or KLM flight number showing the AF or KL designated code"?

It might help to consider what flights the 'inclusion' is expected to gather in. What flights might have an AF or KL designation (ie, so that clause 2.5 requires to be included for level miles) but not be operated by KLM, AF, or Skyteam (ie, not embraced in the main term of the condition 2.5)? Well - it would seem that flights such as KL4102 operated by Malaysian would fall into the 'to be included' category -
as possesing a KL code, but not operated by KLM etc.

The point is whether all KL coded flights earn level miles under clause 2.5 (assuming, of course, that the ticket was purchased for the KL flight at KLM prices).

Talisman

Maurits

You might want to try the miles correction form on the KL website:

http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/flyi...laim/index.htm

Did you have a nice flight though?

Kind regards,
Maurits

kshastry

If I am not wrong, its only the AF/KL codeshare with other Skyteam airlines that are eligeble for Level miles. That is AF/KL codeshare with DL, AZ, CO, OK, and KE are considered for level miles.

ranskis

strange... i flew BUD CDG with an AF ticket on MA metal and got full miles (level+award+gold bonus) as if it was operated by AF. I think the same is also valid for CDG HEL operated by finnair...

kiam

It is my understanding that if you fly on AF-KLM flights (flight number coded under AF or KL but either operated by SkyTeam or Non-SkyTeam) if the miles is to be credited into FB account, it should be counted towards level flights and miles (this will not work if flights are to be credited into other SkyTeam programs). But with all the changes and confusion with FB since June, my understanding on this could turn out to be a complete misunderstanding.

I am with the OP that since the flight was coded under KL flight number and therefore, it should have been credited properly with level flight and mile into FB. Let us know whether you get this clarified by KLM. It is worth to try as one of the posts here says though, claim the missing miles online using KL4102 and see what it says. Who knows, you might end up getting mileage credit on both flights, KL4102 and MH 016.

I strongly believe "DL coded share flights" with China Airlines (CI) and other non-skyteam partners earn full elite miles as long as the flights are coded under DL, tickets are purchased through DL and miles are credited into DL account.

pmcg

Let us all know how you get on as you can see that we can interpret the rules in different ways. I still believe that you only get level miles if it is operated by a Skyteam member.

PJK

I now wonder whether the KL-coded flights to/from LCA will earn miles... They're opratid by CY... but that's not a Skyteam-partner nor a FB-partner...

pmcg

Got to agree, can't see that you could earn FB miles at all on CY.

Talisman

Will you be flying with them - perhaps you could let us know what happens.

I'm taking the advice I've been given - failed at the first hurdle though, didn't have a PIN. Without a PIN, the website doesn't recognise you, so I rang the nice lady who said she'd send the PIN in the mail - could take 2 weeks. She offered to take the details of a missing flight claim there and then, but I decided to try the website first. I'll post back with any news.

I'm beginning to wonder whether there is some difference between KL codeshares, and AF codeshares. There has been another thread on this subject - mostly dealing with AF coded flights. Flyers are saying that AF coded flights by other operators are being treated as 'AF standard' flights for FB purposes. Same remark on this thread, earlier, though different route. So is it possible that, for example, there is a database error - that AF codeshare flight numbers have the 'boxes checked' for level miles and elite bonus miles, whereas the KL codeshare flight data has been prepared for the FB computer with a different set of defaults?

Lastly (sorry for the mixed bag of things), a sad aspect of the KL/MH codeshare is this. If you fly on a KLM ticket on flight KL4102, you only get the same miles that would if you had flown MH0016 - no advantage either way whether you booked KL or MH. But, and it's quite a big but, if you fly KL4102, you cannot use the Malaysian lounge at KLIA, you use the 'Plaza Premium' lounge, which is nice, but a bit limited and small. If you fly MH, you can use the Malaysian lounge, with several showers, sleeping rooms, wider choice of food, more spacious design with a little more privacy, work area, etc.

So it seems to me that, if it IS KLM policy (we don't know yet) that KL codeshares do not earn status miles, then in some instances, Malaysian for one, you are better off not booking KL, but booking direct on the operating carrier, because you'll get access to their facilities, which at their home bases are likely to be superior. Am I correct in thinking that the KLM Lounge between Piers E & F at Sciphol also take Malaysian C/D flyers?

Of course, there is a KLM 'standard' 747 that leaves KLIA a bit earlier if that suited your schedule. I just needed to take the later flight.

And yes, I did enjoy the flight - slept for 5 hours, first time ever. Midweek, so a bit emptier, that perhaps helped.

Thanks, very much, to everyone that commented. I will take it forward, post the answers back, and perhaps we'll get the definitive story. I'm encouraged by the AF successes.

Talisman

alanw

One of the best things that can happen for us is to get MH integrated into SkyTeam. I was just speaking with someone about this earlier tonight. A true high-end carrier in Asia, with good coverage of Australia and vicinity will do wonders for making it a comprehensive alliance.

tlr

That is certainly not always true -- it seems like at least quite a few of the AF-codeshares with non-Skyteam airlines get full mileage.

aurelien75017

I second tlr - and what you have copy-pasted from the FB website. If you are flying on a flight - no matter who is operating it - with a ticket that has an AF or KL number, you will get both level and award miles (the number of which will depend on your ticket class). So you should get your maileage credit - call KLM

Please do let us know if you are having trouble getting these credits. It would be interesting for all of us to find out.

Aurelien

griep

I flew China Airlines from Rome to Bangkok on an AZ number and got both full level and award miles for the trip.

So, if you don't get your full miles for the MH trip, it is at least weird and confusing!!