Flying Blue Extra

Just came across a curious banner on my FB homepage this morning, but clicking on the button just results in a 404 error page.

Anyone know what this is about? The description certainly sounds interesting. Presumably some future form of subscription/membership? If so, the trainee probably uploaded it ahead of time

Did they post their April fools joke 2 days late? Sounds plausible, with the wonky IT and what not..

I am cautiously optimistic since I think Ben & co run a good program. Could be a nice solution for unpredictable times to have a subscription offering. More lounge access, though?

The lounge access bit concerns me. We've already had a lot of discussions about lounge overcrowding, and now if lounge access can become part of a subscription that people get enticed into due to mileage and XP boosters, the situation might get worse in the lounges. The lounge expansions in CDG (and planned ones in AMS) are nice to combat this, but undoing it before capacity is sensible wouldn't be too nice.

Of course, I remain concerned because the recent changes in award availability and massively fluctuating pricing have not been great, but that said, most of the changes done by Ben and team have been handled well. So I remain cautiously optimistic.

There’s plans in AMS? Wasn’t aware of that. The lounges there are so bad in terms of crowding and product that I’ve stopped going altogether.

Not sure about L52, but it seems for L25 there are plans to expand it indeed. On my last visit, I was talking to the lounge manager in the Ulti space and asked if they had made any progress on plans to install pin-pads on the doors. That's when she told me that they might not do this for now because there are plans to expand the lounge into the space where the general relaxed seating is outside the lounge (close to the escalators) and the area that is next to it. She expected that when that happens, the Ulti space will likely move too and that the pin-pad will come at that point. So, at least as per the L25 staff, there are plans cooking for expansion.

Outside the Ulti space, yeah, the crowding of L25 has gotten really bad over the years. Until they put the Ulti room there, I had stopped going myself too and would only visit the Privium lounges. Only since the Ulti space is there, I've started going to L25 and L52 again.

I share your concern about lounge access...

Honestly AF/KLM is becoming more like American Dutch Airlines. Just sell salon and mileage subscriptions and peddle bank cards as part of the BoB programme. Business Light fares already don't come with acc�s to salons or seat selection, why not make acc�s to the salon based on a subscription or card ?

That would seem to be the antithesis of Ben's own words recently regarding not being able to put a price on a customer's loyalty and using Flying Blue to trigger irrational behavior.

If the lounges just go subscription card based, I mean, I already have Priority Pass and Amex, why should I pay AFKL for this too? Plus, I become very rational very quickly then because I can clearly see that AFKL has no wish to reward loyalty, and will start taking business other places, rather than come to AFKL at higher prices so I can make use of my loyalty benefits. Of course, perhaps my/our definition of loyalty is different to what AFKL are thinking it means.

I do agree with you though, that at some point they will have to decide if they want to peddle subscriptions and credit card programs at the expense of their European customer base and irrationally loyal customers, or continue to offer something that balances things appropriately. Maybe it is time for the Franco-American Dutch Airlines to move operations to the US and cater to the customers there, because they seem to want to fit that economic environment more. But hey, maybe we're being harsh and should wait to see what this really is.

I honestly don�t mind business light fares. I don�t care about lounges and I just want to get places and be in a good seat. This was a positive development. The idea behind this subscription is predictable income for AF/KL but also an increased loyalty driver / irrational behavior multiplier through both sunk cost (I am already paying for FB+, so I should just take the KL / AF flight despite being 80 EUR more) and increased reward (XP, miles). I also like that they are looking at the US for some things, like achievement based awards. I hope they roll that out so you can have XP beyond status earning give you some extras, too. Ben alluded to this already.

I think at some point they�ll have to make some hard BA style choices on lounge access, though. If you continue to earn it easily the lounges will remain unusable which defeats the purpose of the program�s rewards.

How is not having stuff included in your ticket a positive development? It's not like you had to use lounges back when they were included.

I think he meant it as Platinum meber because you get the cut services for free as a platinum anyway ... (so for example there is better seat selection up to shortly before departure due to others having to pay)

Right, I just meant to say I find it OK to offer cheaper tickets unbundling those things. Unfortunately as we all know, basic fares like that have basically supplanted regular tickets and just raised the prices on the non-basic ones, but...

Well, that's the point. It's not like you're getting any discount for not having the lounge included.

So basically, Franco-American Dutch Airlines would eventually prefer customers in 3-4 years to buy salon subscriptions and/or bank cards to attain status and benefits. By doing so, the salons will become more crowded as more US Americans find their way into the Crown and CDG 2F salons. The actual type of ticket you buy only plays a secondary role and you're back of the queue.

It's like all the times at ATL or RDU where I was in intercontinental J and they still initiallly want to decline entry. "Oh you need to have a Delta AMEX something-something card to get in." "Yes, but I'm flying international J......" "Right, but you need to have a bank card"