Utskicat

Tonight Delta announced its rumoured changes to Elite Status qualifications and it was worse that any of us expected (and we were braced for pretty bad).

I have been decently active on the KL/AF threads since most of my DL flying the last few years is on AF/KL metal.

Delta's new qualification programs is based entirely on spend and Platinum (PM) and Diamond (DM) spend levels have increased to ridiculous levels (US$18k for PM and US$35k for DM). The increases are to drive more credit card spending but for those of us outside of the USA (I am in Canada) there is no access to a Delta branded credit card to achieve these spend goals. Before tonight they exempted spend for non-US domiciled members, but with the move to pure spend based qualification, that is now gone.

I have been a DL Diamond for 5 years and the transferability of recognition (via ST Elite Plus status) on AF/KL has been great.

Under the new system and no access to a DL credit card in Canada, I will not be able to achieve PM or DM in most years.

That leaves me with a hard decision...where to move my loyalty status? The 2 obvious choices are Air Canada or Flying Blue. I don't want to be a hub captive to AC and I really love the AF product.

I'm getting my head around EXP earning for status. I was curious if there are other active FT'ers that have made the transition and what advice they have? I also would love to know what "sweet spots" there are in the program. For example, as a DL DM, I frequently booked AF Marketed (and operated) flights which resulted in distance flown mileage/point accrual at much higher rates than spend on DL. I think the inverse will work with Flying Blue from what I have read (fly DL coded, AF/KL/VS operated flights to earn redeemable FB miles at distance flown).

In the Delta section of FT tonight, there have been quite a few Delta elites based outside of the US that have mentioned interest in switching to FB for status. So hopefully this thread can centralize current and helpful info, tricks and tips for those of us needing to redirect our loyalty and spend.

There are so many great voices in the AF/KL/FB section of Flyertalk. Thanks in advance to all of you for your help!

mlin32

Honestly in my opinion, FB works best for those based in Europe when it comes to earning for status. That's because where a cross-country flight from say, YUL to YVR will only earn 2XP (6XP in J) on WestJet, a 50mn flight from say, AMS to CDG earns you 5XP (15XP in J) and this XP for status is fixed regardless of who markets the flight. You'll see in the XP Runs thread, our goal is often to maximise these short, international flights on cheap J tickets to rack up the XP for status.

So FB is still a frequent flyer programme in that sense, not so much a frequent spender programme like the US-based airline programmes.

The mileage earnings are kind of secondary for prime tickets; there are occasional good deals in the monthly promos but in my opinion, the redemption rates (dynamic pricing) have gotten worse ever since a lot of the US-based flyers jumped ship on DL and started redeeming their easy-to-earn credit card points for AF/KLM flights especially TATL, kind of like a monetary inflation.

fifty_two

Depending on what you are looking for ; i would suggest to take a look at other skyteam FFPs also

Which ST program should I sign up for?

ask yourself those 8 basic questions to figure out about your options

your choice ; regardless if FB or not , will depends on your flights patterns

As mlin32 said , the current FB XP system is good for those travelling internationally , regardless if tickets is expensive or not , the longer the flight the better

I know you are based in canada ; but if you do a lot of US domestic flights , even in business/first you wont go anywhere in FB . You would need 29 domestic return trips in the US in first/business to reach FB gold

In the meantime there are status matches going on , for instance KQ and TK, you can take a look and see if its worth

UX recently splitted from FB and created their own FFP , the rules are like the old FB

A3 is not hard to get if you can come to europe once a year

So your choice is not = FB or AC only , you are just narrowing your future options

if you travel long distance with other skyteam airlines by adding layovers instead of direct flights you get more XPs and miles

check if you can apply for the AFKL FB mastercard credit card from Brim Financial

The case mentionned by mlin32 is about AMEX MR i guess , regardless what airline can say they love the money from amex (take a look at the DL lounge mess) , so in north america you can get more miles by buying daily groceries than flying with AFKL , however redemption is getting worse and worse with FB , so hold your horses if you expect a miles rewards party here

Fabo.sk

A3 is easy to keep, if you have the option to visit Greece at least once a year from within Europe. It's much more difficult to get (you have to meet qualification requirements for Silver first, and then for Gold, both of which are tougher than requal)

But otherwise I agree with the sentiment. FB is very difficult for domestic fliers, especially those flying a lot in the US (even transcon in Y is only 2XP). You can probably find a program that fits better if that's you.

mtorp

These are all the questions that I've been mulling over the past several hours since I read the Delta news.

I'm a Delta DM and just qualified as a DM for 2024. I'm EU-based so there's surely no adequate status for me beyond 2024. Also, there's little incentive now to collect MQMs by the end of the year as there's no rollover- and I have several biz and prem econ flights pending in Oct-Dec.

I'm having a serious look at FB for that matter. I'm set as a DM for the next year on Delta, so now I can put all my flights into FB if I think this is where my future status lies in 2025 and beyond. With the flights I have, I will be FB Silver by Nov'23 and will be pushing for FB Gold early in '24 - the status I'd be content with.

The question is whether I will still be able to have STE+ benefits on AFKLM flights (lounge access for instance) if my AFKLM tickets will be tied to my FB number - before I reach FB Gold. Would I be able to access the lounges with my Delta DM card if I have an FB status on my AFKLM ticket?

olivedel

Considering the very low amount of XP awarded for domestic trips, I would avoid Flying Blue.
What about another SkyTeam FFP that still uses distance-based qualification criteria?
The other thing to consider is the loss of the Upgrade benefits when switching to a non-Delta SkyTeam FFP.

Fabo.sk

Lounge access and extra baggage yes, ASR for example will be a problem.

cauchy

How do you do this? Go lounge and tell them your story? What if they accidentally take your flying blue number out the booking to add Delta in?

Fabo.sk

Just go to the lounge with your Delta card. If asked, say you are switching and don't have status yet. That's all that's relevant. Or, fly in J, then the point is moot (and you earn status faster)

cauchy

Similar problem here. UK based, so my choice is between Flying Blue and British Airways. It's finely balanced.

My work travel fluctuates a lot, and based on personal travel alone I'd earn at least some status in both. Whereas with Delta, even two long haul business trips a year (and I don't fly business on personal travel) might not be enough to get silver.

No more rollover miles with Delta too and no 'soft landing' so could go from platinum to nothing.

fre_82

What is ASR?

Utskicat

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Some more info about my travel patterns that make me interested in FB.

For work, I fly discount (Z) business YYZ-CDG-India/Asia/Pacific about 4 trips per year. Most trips are 4 segments long or ultra long haul (6 if I endure KL and do a double routing via AMS-CDG).
Also fly Canada-USA which counts as international in FB with decent earnings (up to 15 XP for J). Could buy W/A or sometimes business on DL for these flights. Average 6-8 Canada-USA segments a year. So the low XP earn on domestic USA-only that has been mentioned here would not apply.

This was enough to score me Diamond with Delta which netted 4 one-way Global Upgrade certificates I could buy Prem Econ on AF (or DL, but always went with AF) and get a confirmed upgrade to any Z class. Would use these for 2 personal trips to Europe/Africa or Asia each year. This is going to be the biggest sting to loose.

Going FB allows me to maintain SkyTeam Elite Plus that can be used on DL/VS/KL/AF/KE for bags, seats, lounges and Sky Priority. As a FB elite, I could use FB miles to upgrade on the few personal trips from Y or W to J or even to book LP on miles (though LP have gotten expensive with miles). I earn about 750k Amex Membership reward points every year through business spend that I can transfer into Flying Blue as needed for award tickets and upgrades. I also like the cash upgrade options AF/KL offers but am aware of the NDPU flag that can fairly easily get triggered.

AC's business class is often compared more to European longhaul J standards vs USA carrier's cruddy J product. So there is that. And with AC, E-Ups exist to offer status based J upgrade paths unlike FB. I need to dive into the details of their program to see if my travel patterns fit and I can qualify for their elite levels.

Utskicat

Yup. This is the biggest sore point for me. I maxed this benefit out.

Utskicat

Not sure either, but maybe "Advanced Seat Request" or something to do with getting free priority seats?

Fabo.sk

Advance Seat Reservation.