FB's not so dynamic, dynamic pricing
Jul 26, 2018, 12:12 pm
#1
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Join Date: May 2003
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FB's not so dynamic, dynamic pricing
So we all know Flying Blue has moved to a dynamic pricing model based presumably on an implicit market price.
If that really were the case, then why do J redemptions to South America and Asia still price close to 100.000 miles one way? Paid J to BKK/GRU/EZE is fairly similar, if not cheaper than a CDG-BOS which prices closer to 57k OW.
It seems like they are keeping the old structure intact with some tweaks...
Any insight here?
If that really were the case, then why do J redemptions to South America and Asia still price close to 100.000 miles one way? Paid J to BKK/GRU/EZE is fairly similar, if not cheaper than a CDG-BOS which prices closer to 57k OW.
It seems like they are keeping the old structure intact with some tweaks...
Any insight here?
Jul 26, 2018, 1:45 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
Quite why you thought they would "equalise" prices on some measure of what cash fares on certain routes look like, is a bit of a mystery. Do you really think they would reduce the price of an EU-South America just because you found 2 tickets that happened to be the same cash price?
That is not how they set cash fares - each market is separate. A South America-Europe cash itcket is much cheaper than the inverse - do you think they'd charge much less, in miles, for passengers starting their trip from, say, Brazil, than for someone starting in Europe?
And I'm not sure why this question needed a new thread when there are plenty discussing the new Origin/Destination pricing changes...
Jul 26, 2018, 3:23 pm
#3
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Yes, it IS the old scheme, with a new tweak - the tweak being that ALL seats can be redeemed for miles, so that much, much higher mileage prices are possible.
Quite why you thought they would "equalise" prices on some measure of what cash fares on certain routes look like, is a bit of a mystery. Do you really think they would reduce the price of an EU-South America just because you found 2 tickets that happened to be the same cash price?
That is not how they set cash fares - each market is separate. A South America-Europe cash itcket is much cheaper than the inverse - do you think they'd charge much less, in miles, for passengers starting their trip from, say, Brazil, than for someone starting in Europe?
And I'm not sure why this question needed a new thread when there are plenty discussing the new Origin/Destination pricing changes...
Quite why you thought they would "equalise" prices on some measure of what cash fares on certain routes look like, is a bit of a mystery. Do you really think they would reduce the price of an EU-South America just because you found 2 tickets that happened to be the same cash price?
That is not how they set cash fares - each market is separate. A South America-Europe cash itcket is much cheaper than the inverse - do you think they'd charge much less, in miles, for passengers starting their trip from, say, Brazil, than for someone starting in Europe?
And I'm not sure why this question needed a new thread when there are plenty discussing the new Origin/Destination pricing changes...
I note that you most frequently a) belittle/shut down others' comments and b) try to command and control all discussion. Quite frankly it's condescending, kind of obnoxious and it is certainly not the spirit of Flyertalk, of which I have been an active participant for over 15 years. If you want to be a moderator, ask to be one.
So let's dissect:
1) Uh, there is actually is no mystery as to my thinking. FB was clear in saying that they were aligning mileage pricing to more closely reflect market pricing. Whether they charge more or less has nothing to do with what I or you *think* they would charge. There is a market price.
2) As I am sure you know, tickets are priced based on country of origin as well as country of destination. No news there. But given that prices vary per origin, yes- I would believe that they should follow the same philosophy of pricing those differently.
Last edited by bostontraveler; Jul 26, 2018 at 3:36 pm
Jul 27, 2018, 2:52 am
#4
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So we all know Flying Blue has moved to a dynamic pricing model based presumably on an implicit market price.
If that really were the case, then why do J redemptions to South America and Asia still price close to 100.000 miles one way? Paid J to BKK/GRU/EZE is fairly similar, if not cheaper than a CDG-BOS which prices closer to 57k OW.
It seems like they are keeping the old structure intact with some tweaks...
Any insight here?
If that really were the case, then why do J redemptions to South America and Asia still price close to 100.000 miles one way? Paid J to BKK/GRU/EZE is fairly similar, if not cheaper than a CDG-BOS which prices closer to 57k OW.
It seems like they are keeping the old structure intact with some tweaks...
Any insight here?
Also it seems impossible to get the lowest price in miles on that specific route.
Jul 27, 2018, 5:25 am
#5
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I really do feel we are on a downward spiral with all this, as all my schemes move towards this dynamic pricing format. It will turn the FFPs into rebate programmes, or pseudo cashback sites like Payback in Germany. I can't see it generating huge passionate interest, but maybe it will interest the groups they are trying to target, Payback certainly has its followers in Germany, similar to Quidco and TopCashBack in the UK.
Last edited by Concerto; Jul 27, 2018 at 12:26 pm Reason: typo
Jul 27, 2018, 5:31 am
#6
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yeah, my thought is the same. No concrete proof of it but I believe they may be testing the waters to not shock customers... and then gradually going the way of Delta... soon we might see much higher miles required....
Jul 28, 2018, 3:59 am
#8
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A question is what fare do they align to.
It could be that they link to discounted fares. BOS destination often has "cheap" J fare sales, SIN or HKG do not.
The mass market for FB is Europe. Even if TPE-CDG is much cheaper than CDG-TPE, I doubt that it matters much for FB as there are very few members buying J return tickets from TPE.
It could be that they link to discounted fares. BOS destination often has "cheap" J fare sales, SIN or HKG do not.
The mass market for FB is Europe. Even if TPE-CDG is much cheaper than CDG-TPE, I doubt that it matters much for FB as there are very few members buying J return tickets from TPE.
Jul 28, 2018, 5:19 am
#9
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Not really. Ex-CDG you rarely ever see a nonstop to the BOS or most US cities save JFK for under 2000€. BKK and GRU frequently come in at 1700€
My point is that the France-US and particularly US originating J fares are quite high (those are outrageous) higher than markets farther away.
My point is that the France-US and particularly US originating J fares are quite high (those are outrageous) higher than markets farther away.
Jul 28, 2018, 12:45 pm
#10
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I see some LAX return at 135000 in J on random dates.... Doesn't seem particularly bad value.....
can you be more specific?
can you be more specific?
Not really. Ex-CDG you rarely ever see a nonstop to the BOS or most US cities save JFK for under 2000€. BKK and GRU frequently come in at 1700€
My point is that the France-US and particularly US originating J fares are quite high (those are outrageous) higher than markets farther away.
My point is that the France-US and particularly US originating J fares are quite high (those are outrageous) higher than markets farther away.
Jul 28, 2018, 2:10 pm
#11
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Ok Let me see if I can do a better job at explaining this.
In the previous program, these were approximate one way mileage levels ex-Europe.
North America 62,500
SE Asia and S. America 100,000
New rates haven’t budged that much.
There is far more competition on tickets from Europe to Asia and J can be found in the sub 2000€ range. South America can be found at €2200-2800 range.
Most fares ex-Europe to the US are in the 2000€ range and ex-US much, much higher.
If FB is truly aligning mileage to market prices why does it still cost 100k in J one way to Asia or South America? Is a ticket to NYC really 1/2 of the price of a tokeft to BKK? Probably not.
My take is it’s not really market based at all but a convenient way to raise prices overall.
In the previous program, these were approximate one way mileage levels ex-Europe.
North America 62,500
SE Asia and S. America 100,000
New rates haven’t budged that much.
There is far more competition on tickets from Europe to Asia and J can be found in the sub 2000€ range. South America can be found at €2200-2800 range.
Most fares ex-Europe to the US are in the 2000€ range and ex-US much, much higher.
If FB is truly aligning mileage to market prices why does it still cost 100k in J one way to Asia or South America? Is a ticket to NYC really 1/2 of the price of a tokeft to BKK? Probably not.
My take is it’s not really market based at all but a convenient way to raise prices overall.
Jul 30, 2018, 5:48 am
#12
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I must say the number of miles required has insanely gone up, for what the miles were really useful before (one ways or Business class long haul redemptions), in every search I did in the last couple of weeks. Of course, the cheaper options are the non AF-KL ones where the amount of miles is not impacted by dynamic pricing.
Flying Blue became the best program to earn miles on other SkyTeam airlines and redeem on other SkyTeam airlines!
Flying Blue became the best program to earn miles on other SkyTeam airlines and redeem on other SkyTeam airlines!