JOUY31

CDG to GVA - 4 seats available - EUR 239. I respectfully declined.

Bullspread

Whilst US airlines offer free upgrades to loyal PAX for the remaining empty J seats, AFKL has a strategy to discourage upgrades.

BobTL

Those upgrades aren't free.DL only allows you to reach status by spending $, boosted by purchasing a CC.
So you already paid for these 'free' upgrades on beforehand.
Status at FB isn't related to amount of money spent. One could earn Platinum status for as little as 3.000 EUR per year on FB (15 roundtrips of 4 legs, which is challenging but possible) while DL demands 5000 MQD which cost $ 5.000 for the lowest status Silver. Platinum Medallion sets you back for 15.000 MQD ($ 15.000)
So that is nearly a factor 5, so of course DL members already royally paid for their 'free' upgrade.

DiamondSM

I will add to keep a status with FB is much more easy... just need 300 XP to keep a Platinum! with Delta to keep a Platinum you need to redo all from begin each year... (same as doing 580 XP) ...

Bullspread

US airlines free upgrades for their most loyal clients. Of course the FF status is attached to a lot of $$$ spent in airline tickets.

I am ULTIMATE at AFKL and spend 30-40K per annum with the company in premium classes.
I am ranked in the heavy premium classes travelers tier, and as consequence get the most expensive upgrade offers at OLCI even if the J cabin is half empty.

hhdl

By the same token, 30-40k on DL is barely Diamond, with no shot at 360.

DiamondSM

This is why , I think most of FF here will agree FB status is more easy to have than Skymiles. I must admit the "step" between FB Platinum & Ultimate is bigger than between SM Platinum & Diamond (I compare more SM Diamond with FB Ultimate, because the choice benefit / advantage are near).

Storizontal Habilizer

One has to also take into consideration that earnings, and purchasing power in general, are substantially higher in North America than in Europe. Thus, a 30-40K spend in North America is average whereas in Europe it is considerable.

DuyT

and to add to this though: I don’t think the point he was trying to make was whether it was equal or not. FFPs will always have some disparities in earning and ease of reaching/maintaining elite level. The point was that even with fairly high spend and being the highest level in this programme, instead of getting complementary upgrades as with even mid-level US programs, we are effectively penalized as elite status holders in FB. Even with the confirmation that the algorithm doesn’t actively use status to decide on price of ipgrades, the combination of criteria somehow does seem to disadvantage them as a net result. That is the jarring thing here. And I don’t even think any Plats/Ultimates here are “demanding” so to speak complementary upgrades. We know within EU airlines that is a no-go; we’re just asking the same upgrade prices as non-status holders.

JohnSIN

One question for those stuck in upgrade hell (I have read many pages of this thread but might have missed the answer to my question).
To go around the high prices you get offered when you have taken too many of these offers or your profile identifies you as a big spender, hence no need for a preferential fare, has anyone tried to do bookings with no reference to your FFP, status or your account, seen a more beneficial offer and only added your FFP at check-in?

I understand you would lose out on the preferential seat choice prior to check in but if you can upgrade for cheaper, why not?

BobTL

That is really good for you

But not the point i am making. The US carriers offer 'free' upgrades to their elites because these elites already paid for these seats on beforehand by spending 5 times as much to get that status compared to Flying Blue elite status.
The point is that the business model and FF programs are totally incomparable to Flying Blue FF status.

The price you get at OLCI is not based on your FF status, confirmed by Ben.

maalloc

Which means… absolutely nothing.

One can easily devise an algorithm that uses proxy variables for status (the most obvious one being yearly spending or… let’s say… the number of legs flown per year) and say, rightfully, that it does not use the status to come up with the upgrade price.

Yet, it would behave exactly as if it did.

So while I appreciate Ben’s presence here, brushing off the root issue by making this kind of statement is akin to candy makers bragging their lollipops are fat-free:1) technically true but misleading 2) doesn’t answer the actual question

DiamondSM

I must admit, I cheat to receive most of the time "lower" cost proposal for upgrade.

I put my Skymiles Diamond FF # at booking. This give me choice of seat.
At Checkin open, I change it to my FB FF #. This way I receive lower cost proposal...
From my understanding, the cost are not base on the status, but on the history of the traveler. But for AF/KL, my Skymile have never accept any upgrade...

Milkman

349 EUR W -> J on CDG-MEX, on AF174 that is always operated by the premium heavy configuration of 777, hence often good upgrade deals to be had at check-in, of which many have been posted ere in the past.
Not as cheap as sometimes seen (as low as 269!) but still really good value and I jumped on it without much hesitation.

Also offered upgrade from W to J on PTY-CDG returning 10 days later - this one oddly operated by the 777 with 14J seats, never seen before on this route (usually 772 or 789) and purser confirmed that this was indeed a rare sight. I think it was 499 EUR and I declined that, took a sleeping pill and got some hours of sleep in the heavily criticized W seat.
Also playing this a weeny bit tactically by not taking all upgrades offers, so that the algorithm plays a little in my favor.

Finally offered CDG-CPH for 99 EUR. Also declined. Slept like a baby in Y after the PTY-CDG and short transit.

frec63_ft

BOM-AMS W->J 259 EUR. took it !
AMS-GVA Y->J 129 EUR no thank you...