May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Mar 4, 2018, 3:33 pm
#1081
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,072
The lack of toilets did surprise me, but indeed it was a great spot to wait for a non-schengen departure.
Mar 6, 2018, 11:46 am
#1083
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
New Ultimate member...
Hallo from AMS KLM airport lounge !
I am new writer here (registered for a while already, as a non frequent reader), and just found this topic on your forum via Google when typing "Ultimate Flying Blue".
I received an email around 2 weeks ago informing me that I reached this status Ultimate, which I was even not aware of (first time I heard about!). This status is actually mentioned nowhere on the AF/KL Flying Blue websites and I was surprised to get that information about this "higher" status, above Platinum. Even more surprised to get such a higher status, as I am not flying soooooo much with AF/KL (I am more loyal to Lufthansa) but obviously my flights in the past 24 months was somehow enough to reach the 360.000 miles you are describing in this forum.
Today is my first AF/KL flight since I got this new status, and I am wondering a lot about the real advantages of being Ultimate... Reason why I was looking for more information on Google and found this forum; I only checked the last few pages (out of 73!) and realize that I am not the only one...
I have to mention first that I am HON at Star Alliance LH, and this is logically my comparison point. And wow.... What a disappointment when comparing HON with Ultimate (which is may be a mistake to do, but I just compare the highest status at LH with the highest status at AF/KL -even if their is may be an even higher secret status at Flying Blue???-).
On my first Ultimate flight today, within Europe and with connection in AMS for 3hrs, I didn't see at all any difference from past Platinum passenger to new Ultimate passenger. Same process at check-in, X-ray, immigration, boarding, on-board, catering, disembarking, transfer, lounge, etc... Really no difference at all. Don't misunderstand me, I actually don't expect anything else as what I get today, but again, comparing with HON, wow...
Being HON, I would list following advantages to be secured, even many of them are not important to me:
1- Check-in at FIRST counter (AF/KL at regular Sky Priority counter)
2- Luggage tagged as HON, being in approx. 90% of the cases sure to get my luggage as very first passenger at the belt (AF/KL with regular Priority tag, which very rarely comes first at the belt)
3- Access to FIRST lounge when available, incl. its premium service and catering (AF/KL with regular access to the crazy big / loud / packed / untasty / ... / lounge in AMS)
4- Special attention in the plane with personalized welcome from the Senior Purser (AF/KL without any special attention compared to other passengers)
5- Limousine service when arriving at remote parking position, to Lounge or directly to the new gate / new plane when short connecting time (AF/KL using regular bus, specially annoying when landing at Terminal B and departing from B again, but required to take the bus to the central area in Terminal C/D before walking all the way back to B)
6- Higher multiplication of miles / free upgrade vouchers (according to your previous messages, this is not part of the Ultimate package either)
The only advantages listed above which I really appreciate at HON are may be 2. (priority luggage really respected), but very specially 3. (access to FIRST lounge with quiet atmosphere and excellent catering) and 5. (limousine service to avoid running from point A to point B when these 2 points are just distant about a few meters, specially when short connection time). This also gives the feeling to be at a higher status, enjoying real benefits.
My question today: WHY? Why did AF/KL introduced such a new status (obviously for a couple of months already) if their is no advantage at all for the passenger?
Such a new status is a wonderful (but expensive) way to secure more loyalty from its customers, but also a disaster if customer expectation is not filled; is that may be the reason why this status remains "secret"? Kind of: "you didn't expect anything, so we don't give you anything"? So, back to the first question: WHY such a so called "higher" status?
Understood from previous messages as well as from the email received from AF/LM 2 weeks ago that a PA is provided to Ultimate members, but I cannot find any reason why I would need a PA over there... Did you really called your PA in the past, and if so, for what???
Sorry for long mail, just sharing experience while waiting in a crowded lounge!
Cheers from AMS!
I am new writer here (registered for a while already, as a non frequent reader), and just found this topic on your forum via Google when typing "Ultimate Flying Blue".
I received an email around 2 weeks ago informing me that I reached this status Ultimate, which I was even not aware of (first time I heard about!). This status is actually mentioned nowhere on the AF/KL Flying Blue websites and I was surprised to get that information about this "higher" status, above Platinum. Even more surprised to get such a higher status, as I am not flying soooooo much with AF/KL (I am more loyal to Lufthansa) but obviously my flights in the past 24 months was somehow enough to reach the 360.000 miles you are describing in this forum.
Today is my first AF/KL flight since I got this new status, and I am wondering a lot about the real advantages of being Ultimate... Reason why I was looking for more information on Google and found this forum; I only checked the last few pages (out of 73!) and realize that I am not the only one...
I have to mention first that I am HON at Star Alliance LH, and this is logically my comparison point. And wow.... What a disappointment when comparing HON with Ultimate (which is may be a mistake to do, but I just compare the highest status at LH with the highest status at AF/KL -even if their is may be an even higher secret status at Flying Blue???-).
On my first Ultimate flight today, within Europe and with connection in AMS for 3hrs, I didn't see at all any difference from past Platinum passenger to new Ultimate passenger. Same process at check-in, X-ray, immigration, boarding, on-board, catering, disembarking, transfer, lounge, etc... Really no difference at all. Don't misunderstand me, I actually don't expect anything else as what I get today, but again, comparing with HON, wow...
Being HON, I would list following advantages to be secured, even many of them are not important to me:
1- Check-in at FIRST counter (AF/KL at regular Sky Priority counter)
2- Luggage tagged as HON, being in approx. 90% of the cases sure to get my luggage as very first passenger at the belt (AF/KL with regular Priority tag, which very rarely comes first at the belt)
3- Access to FIRST lounge when available, incl. its premium service and catering (AF/KL with regular access to the crazy big / loud / packed / untasty / ... / lounge in AMS)
4- Special attention in the plane with personalized welcome from the Senior Purser (AF/KL without any special attention compared to other passengers)
5- Limousine service when arriving at remote parking position, to Lounge or directly to the new gate / new plane when short connecting time (AF/KL using regular bus, specially annoying when landing at Terminal B and departing from B again, but required to take the bus to the central area in Terminal C/D before walking all the way back to B)
6- Higher multiplication of miles / free upgrade vouchers (according to your previous messages, this is not part of the Ultimate package either)
The only advantages listed above which I really appreciate at HON are may be 2. (priority luggage really respected), but very specially 3. (access to FIRST lounge with quiet atmosphere and excellent catering) and 5. (limousine service to avoid running from point A to point B when these 2 points are just distant about a few meters, specially when short connection time). This also gives the feeling to be at a higher status, enjoying real benefits.
My question today: WHY? Why did AF/KL introduced such a new status (obviously for a couple of months already) if their is no advantage at all for the passenger?
Such a new status is a wonderful (but expensive) way to secure more loyalty from its customers, but also a disaster if customer expectation is not filled; is that may be the reason why this status remains "secret"? Kind of: "you didn't expect anything, so we don't give you anything"? So, back to the first question: WHY such a so called "higher" status?
Understood from previous messages as well as from the email received from AF/LM 2 weeks ago that a PA is provided to Ultimate members, but I cannot find any reason why I would need a PA over there... Did you really called your PA in the past, and if so, for what???
Sorry for long mail, just sharing experience while waiting in a crowded lounge!
Cheers from AMS!
Mar 7, 2018, 2:58 am
#1084
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Pamplona, welcome to FT!
You will see that you’ll probably get many likes for your post, mostly from fellow ULTIs who share your pain - calling Goldorak, Travelbits, et al. But also from non-ULTIs (like me) who watch this space to watch this space - somewhat naively you might argue - for new developments and benefits that would make it worthwhile to “go” for it.
However, there is one benefit that is provided as it seems more or less consistently which I find very attractive: an escort service through immigration at Paris terminal 2E. The Paris-based ULTIs will be able to tell you more about it. Not sure if it has value for you in your travel patterns.
On a personal note, you must do an insane amount of flying. Obtaining both HON and ULTI status means not just a lot of travelling up front, which quite a number of people do, but doing that on a very large number of flights.
However, there is one benefit that is provided as it seems more or less consistently which I find very attractive: an escort service through immigration at Paris terminal 2E. The Paris-based ULTIs will be able to tell you more about it. Not sure if it has value for you in your travel patterns.
On a personal note, you must do an insane amount of flying. Obtaining both HON and ULTI status means not just a lot of travelling up front, which quite a number of people do, but doing that on a very large number of flights.
Mar 7, 2018, 3:31 am
#1085
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,648
A warm welcome to FlyerTalk, @Pamplona - it's great that you eventually decided to contribute.
A superb first post with a number of valid points which I'm sure many here will share at a glance.
Whilst I can't talk as a Ulti but just as a humble Plat instead, yet the launch of this new tier has always left me slightly puzzled from the very beginning [when the extra benefits weren't widely known yet], this not only further to the excellent reports from @Goldorak and others but mostly considering that Flying Blue had not yet managed to run a decent program with the previous tiers (i.e. Silver/Gold/Platinum), with little or none differentiation between them, apart from the extra miles (in fact, Gold & Platinum levels are virtually the same), not to mention the infrastructure (Amsterdam lounges?) which, as you rightly say concerning the HON level through M&M, is tremendously needed when launching a tier (Ultimate, in this particular case) that aims at being top of the top and at which, at least as it seems, Flying Blue has failed miserably.
G
A superb first post with a number of valid points which I'm sure many here will share at a glance.
Whilst I can't talk as a Ulti but just as a humble Plat instead, yet the launch of this new tier has always left me slightly puzzled from the very beginning [when the extra benefits weren't widely known yet], this not only further to the excellent reports from @Goldorak and others but mostly considering that Flying Blue had not yet managed to run a decent program with the previous tiers (i.e. Silver/Gold/Platinum), with little or none differentiation between them, apart from the extra miles (in fact, Gold & Platinum levels are virtually the same), not to mention the infrastructure (Amsterdam lounges?) which, as you rightly say concerning the HON level through M&M, is tremendously needed when launching a tier (Ultimate, in this particular case) that aims at being top of the top and at which, at least as it seems, Flying Blue has failed miserably.
G
.
Mar 7, 2018, 5:47 am
#1087
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,072
I am not even Silver yet, but I have to agree with aforementioned sentiment.
Especially considering that Flying Blue is lacking as it is in high-level tiers compared to the main competitor (generally it's easier to earn Platinum on FB than even SEN on M&M), it is puzzling that FB came out with this Platinum Sort Of Plus But Not Really tier instead of a proper top tier like HON.
As an aside - something you might find out if you go digging in the thread... ULTI is ignored in AMS even more so than elsewhere. At least Air France stations give some recognition, if inconsistently.
Especially considering that Flying Blue is lacking as it is in high-level tiers compared to the main competitor (generally it's easier to earn Platinum on FB than even SEN on M&M), it is puzzling that FB came out with this Platinum Sort Of Plus But Not Really tier instead of a proper top tier like HON.
As an aside - something you might find out if you go digging in the thread... ULTI is ignored in AMS even more so than elsewhere. At least Air France stations give some recognition, if inconsistently.
Mar 7, 2018, 5:51 am
#1088
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,935
Welcome Pamplona and congratulations for your great 1st post. You have indeed very well summarized the Ultimate situation. It would be good if you can take the time to read the whole thread (starting may be from page 10), because it contains a lot of useful information for you. But I'm happy to summarize the situation.
First, I'd like to precise that Ulti is not a new FB tier but a kind of "tag" attached to an existing FB status : Platinum, Plat for life, Club2000/Skipper. Ulti is valid for 2 years and the qualification criteria is 360K only on AF, KL and A5-coded flights (other Skyteam-coded flights and FB Amex spendings do not count).
The launch of Ulti a year ago was really chaotic with almost no tangible benefits, only "nice-to-have". I explained to AF at that time that they were shooting themselves in the foot each time they were giving a new Ulti card, because the disappointment was so huge and they were endangering their business by doing that to their best customers. The only tangible benefit at that time was the TA team, but as you said you don't always need them. Another one was a reserved space in AF lounges in CDG. After a kind of class action
launched by some Ultimate fellows of this forum (I am part of this Ultimate consortium 
), and also thanks to other Ultimate pax (not present on FT) who have also complained, things have started to move but mostly on the AF side of the force. We have obtained :
- an escort service at CDG2E through passport control on departure and arrival ^. Unfortunately, it is only proposed systematically in the morning from 7 am to 2 pm. Outside this, on departure, it's hit & miss. In AMS : nothing, nada
. At outstations : very variable from top notch to miserable. It is rarely offered spontaneously at outstations and so you need to ask.
- a consistently offered reserved space in CDG AF lounges ^. In AMS KL lounges, again nothing, nada
- a pre-boarding procedure, well applied in CDG ^. At the moment it's not systematic in other stations but it works sometimes.
Also, you will notice a greater attention on-board from the crews and this is true for both AF & KL.
We are impatiently awaiting for a proposed mechanism for upgrades, reserved to Ulti pax. This is awaited for a long time and we hope to have some news soon.
Overall, there are some nice aspects of this programme but the main problem remains its inconsistencies across the network and too much dependent on the mood of the day of some staff members and ressources available. The darkest side of the program remains sadly AMS and KL lounges.
It has improved significantly in one year, so let's hope that it will continue. Please help us and do not hesitate to send your feed-back to the TA team (and share it here of course ).
PS : I was quite puzzled reading you saying that you were surprised to be Ulti because you don't fly so much AFKL. You should really fly a lot and also knowing that you are LH HON
First, I'd like to precise that Ulti is not a new FB tier but a kind of "tag" attached to an existing FB status : Platinum, Plat for life, Club2000/Skipper. Ulti is valid for 2 years and the qualification criteria is 360K only on AF, KL and A5-coded flights (other Skyteam-coded flights and FB Amex spendings do not count).
The launch of Ulti a year ago was really chaotic with almost no tangible benefits, only "nice-to-have". I explained to AF at that time that they were shooting themselves in the foot each time they were giving a new Ulti card, because the disappointment was so huge and they were endangering their business by doing that to their best customers. The only tangible benefit at that time was the TA team, but as you said you don't always need them. Another one was a reserved space in AF lounges in CDG. After a kind of class action
launched by some Ultimate fellows of this forum (I am part of this Ultimate consortium ), and also thanks to other Ultimate pax (not present on FT) who have also complained, things have started to move but mostly on the AF side of the force. We have obtained :- an escort service at CDG2E through passport control on departure and arrival ^. Unfortunately, it is only proposed systematically in the morning from 7 am to 2 pm. Outside this, on departure, it's hit & miss. In AMS : nothing, nada
. At outstations : very variable from top notch to miserable. It is rarely offered spontaneously at outstations and so you need to ask.- a consistently offered reserved space in CDG AF lounges ^. In AMS KL lounges, again nothing, nada
- a pre-boarding procedure, well applied in CDG ^. At the moment it's not systematic in other stations but it works sometimes.
Also, you will notice a greater attention on-board from the crews and this is true for both AF & KL.
We are impatiently awaiting for a proposed mechanism for upgrades, reserved to Ulti pax. This is awaited for a long time and we hope to have some news soon.
Overall, there are some nice aspects of this programme but the main problem remains its inconsistencies across the network and too much dependent on the mood of the day of some staff members and ressources available. The darkest side of the program remains sadly AMS and KL lounges.
It has improved significantly in one year, so let's hope that it will continue. Please help us and do not hesitate to send your feed-back to the TA team (and share it here of course
).PS : I was quite puzzled reading you saying that you were surprised to be Ulti because you don't fly so much AFKL. You should really fly a lot and also knowing that you are LH HON
Mar 7, 2018, 9:50 am
#1089
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
Welcome Pamplona from me as well.
It is "nice" to ready that a fresh pair of eyes sees the same question marks (mildly spoken) as those that had the honour for 1 (or even 2) years already. I always like to benchmark my expectations in order not to 'dream away' - but clearly your post shows that there is (still) something structurally wrong here.
And then, if one reads through Goldorak's post and tries to find the benefits in AMS we are down to even less than CDG has to offer. I am looking forward to the improvements coming hopefully soon, but then still the fact is that the first 15 months benefits were non-existent and for how long do we need to wait further till such improvements will be rolled out at all the various locations (keyword: consitency).
Cheers!
It is "nice" to ready that a fresh pair of eyes sees the same question marks (mildly spoken) as those that had the honour for 1 (or even 2) years already. I always like to benchmark my expectations in order not to 'dream away' - but clearly your post shows that there is (still) something structurally wrong here.
And then, if one reads through Goldorak's post and tries to find the benefits in AMS we are down to even less than CDG has to offer. I am looking forward to the improvements coming hopefully soon, but then still the fact is that the first 15 months benefits were non-existent and for how long do we need to wait further till such improvements will be rolled out at all the various locations (keyword: consitency).
Cheers!
Mar 7, 2018, 10:19 am
#1090
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,072
HON, for comparison, would take about 15 such returns.
Mar 7, 2018, 10:24 am
#1091
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
Thanks for all your feedbacks!
I am in fact travelling a lot (monthly from Europe to Asia, at least 3-4 times a month within Europe, and once a while to India and the USA, but all mostly with LH). Seems that flying in above mentioned frequency in Business Class is enough to reach both, HON and now Ultimate.
I somehow understand from your posts that the benefit of being Ultimate is greater when flying AF than KLM (ah? I believed it’s the same company???) but this is then even more a no-go for me...
Sorry to blame even myself (as I am French!), but having such a heavy flight schedule with a French company is just impossible... If you are lucky that your pilot is not on strike, then it’s the steward, or the food catering company, or the tower controller, or what ever else... Last strike at AF: 2 weeks ago; next strike at AF: in 2 weeks again; etc etc... How to be credible to my customers if I need to cancel every second trip because I am stuck at an airport somewhere??? Lufthansa also had some annoying strikes in the past 2 years, but I was never stuck anywhere; as HON, they always put me on nice alternate flights (I remember a very nice First Class experience on SQ from SIN to FRA while originally booking a Business Class ticket with Lufthansa which was cancelled due to pilot strikes in Germnay).
Another large problem with AF for me is that I need to transit in CDG, and arriving at 2G to go to 2E is just too much uncomfortable! I get your point about the escort for passport control (which is for sure enjoyable, knowing the crazy situation at peak hours), but my point is more to go all the way from the plane at 2G, taking all these subway corridors to reach a bus (after a certain waiting time) which drops you after a long way to a central place where you have to walk up and then all the way to the lounge / to the connecting gate. As explained in my first post, this is THE big benefit of HON: a car is waiting for you at the plane and brings you to the -First- lounge / to the next gate.
As mentioned in my previous post, I didn’t see any special attention on both KLM flights taken yesterday. Will let you know if I see a difference over the time (flying with them tomorrow again).
My question remains somehow unanswered: WHY? Why did AF/KL (obviously more AF) created this new « high end » tag to Platinum if they do not provide any further benefit? What’s the purpose?
I am in fact travelling a lot (monthly from Europe to Asia, at least 3-4 times a month within Europe, and once a while to India and the USA, but all mostly with LH). Seems that flying in above mentioned frequency in Business Class is enough to reach both, HON and now Ultimate.
I somehow understand from your posts that the benefit of being Ultimate is greater when flying AF than KLM (ah? I believed it’s the same company???) but this is then even more a no-go for me...
Sorry to blame even myself (as I am French!), but having such a heavy flight schedule with a French company is just impossible... If you are lucky that your pilot is not on strike, then it’s the steward, or the food catering company, or the tower controller, or what ever else... Last strike at AF: 2 weeks ago; next strike at AF: in 2 weeks again; etc etc... How to be credible to my customers if I need to cancel every second trip because I am stuck at an airport somewhere??? Lufthansa also had some annoying strikes in the past 2 years, but I was never stuck anywhere; as HON, they always put me on nice alternate flights (I remember a very nice First Class experience on SQ from SIN to FRA while originally booking a Business Class ticket with Lufthansa which was cancelled due to pilot strikes in Germnay).
Another large problem with AF for me is that I need to transit in CDG, and arriving at 2G to go to 2E is just too much uncomfortable! I get your point about the escort for passport control (which is for sure enjoyable, knowing the crazy situation at peak hours), but my point is more to go all the way from the plane at 2G, taking all these subway corridors to reach a bus (after a certain waiting time) which drops you after a long way to a central place where you have to walk up and then all the way to the lounge / to the connecting gate. As explained in my first post, this is THE big benefit of HON: a car is waiting for you at the plane and brings you to the -First- lounge / to the next gate.
As mentioned in my previous post, I didn’t see any special attention on both KLM flights taken yesterday. Will let you know if I see a difference over the time (flying with them tomorrow again).
My question remains somehow unanswered: WHY? Why did AF/KL (obviously more AF) created this new « high end » tag to Platinum if they do not provide any further benefit? What’s the purpose?
Mar 7, 2018, 10:36 am
#1092
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
Not sure how to calculate that, but for me it was in 2017 (if my calendar is still actual) following return flights: 5 times HKG (via FRA or AMS), 2 times SIN (all via FRA), 3 times TPE (all via AMS), 1 time BKK (via FRA), 2 times INC (via FRA) and 1 time KUL (via AMS). 1 flight to SFO (via FRA) and 1 flight to DEL (via AMS). Too many flights within Europe (via FRA or AMS) to be listed. Seems that both, Business Class and the short connecting flight to AMS, CDG or FRA help a lot to reach higher qualifying points.
Mar 7, 2018, 10:47 am
#1093
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
If I were to hazard a guess, I would suspect that this might have to do with inefficiencies in the corporate culture: somebody comes up with a good idea, makes enough fuss for the idea to be noted and acted upon but with limited resources. However, the inertia of the big corporate machine where everybody work in their own silo and preserve the integrity of "their" territory against ideas coming from another silo makes its weight felt. Sometimes, you are lucky as a manager in a particular department/location thinks it is a good idea and do what they can to make something of it. At other times, nothing happens because the relevant local manager could not care less as this is not his baby and he does not see that as a priority from his perspective.
Mar 7, 2018, 10:55 am
#1094
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
Well, in that case, they urgently need to change Management...
Sorry but such a company acting with so many different cultures around the world cannot leave its employees out of control (everyone doing what they believe to be best)!!!
Sorry but such a company acting with so many different cultures around the world cannot leave its employees out of control (everyone doing what they believe to be best)!!!
Mar 7, 2018, 10:56 am
#1095
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Paris,FR
Programs: AF/KL FBPFL Ultimate, IHG Spire, HERTZ 5 stars
Posts: 82
Hallo from AMS KLM airport lounge !
Being HON, I would list following advantages to be secured, even many of them are not important to me:
1- Check-in at FIRST counter (AF/KL at regular Sky Priority counter)
2- Luggage tagged as HON, being in approx. 90% of the cases sure to get my luggage as very first passenger at the belt (AF/KL with regular Priority tag, which very rarely comes first at the belt)
3- Access to FIRST lounge when available, incl. its premium service and catering (AF/KL with regular access to the crazy big / loud / packed / untasty / ... / lounge in AMS)
4- Special attention in the plane with personalized welcome from the Senior Purser (AF/KL without any special attention compared to other passengers)
5- Limousine service when arriving at remote parking position, to Lounge or directly to the new gate / new plane when short connecting time (AF/KL using regular bus, specially annoying when landing at Terminal B and departing from B again, but required to take the bus to the central area in Terminal C/D before walking all the way back to B)
6- Higher multiplication of miles / free upgrade vouchers (according to your previous messages, this is not part of the Ultimate package either)
Cheers from AMS!
Being HON, I would list following advantages to be secured, even many of them are not important to me:
1- Check-in at FIRST counter (AF/KL at regular Sky Priority counter)
2- Luggage tagged as HON, being in approx. 90% of the cases sure to get my luggage as very first passenger at the belt (AF/KL with regular Priority tag, which very rarely comes first at the belt)
3- Access to FIRST lounge when available, incl. its premium service and catering (AF/KL with regular access to the crazy big / loud / packed / untasty / ... / lounge in AMS)
4- Special attention in the plane with personalized welcome from the Senior Purser (AF/KL without any special attention compared to other passengers)
5- Limousine service when arriving at remote parking position, to Lounge or directly to the new gate / new plane when short connecting time (AF/KL using regular bus, specially annoying when landing at Terminal B and departing from B again, but required to take the bus to the central area in Terminal C/D before walking all the way back to B)
6- Higher multiplication of miles / free upgrade vouchers (according to your previous messages, this is not part of the Ultimate package either)
Cheers from AMS!
Nice to be HON, my 1y Ultimate image vs 6 points you mentioned for HON benefits are :
1/ No
2/ No
3/ No
4/ Yes
5/ No, tried never get it = only for P passengerrs
6/ No, not yet for voucher, pushing for that
I several tried to "challenge" customer service/TA based on HON benefit or other program , here below you will found the answer in french (i let google translate help you), that do not deserve any comments :
"Cher Monsieur X ,
Nous avons bien reçu votre demande de clarification sur les bénéfices 360 Delta et Hon Lufthansa.
Nous n'avons pas d'informations sur le programme offert par d'autres Compagnies aériennes. Je vous envoie un lien pour des informations de 360 Delta (trouvé via Google.com).
https://thepointsguy.com/2016/06/top-perks-delta-360/
Bien cordialement,
Y
Service Client"
Rgds