May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Aug 15, 2017, 4:56 am
#676
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Although to some it may seem that all this complaining about a poorly executed Ultimate program sounds like whining about a high class problem, I do totally get it. It must be very frustrating after the expectations that have been created by Flying Blue. Being told that you're not entitled to a personal escort? For example, imagine as an Elite Plus what it would feel like to be ignored access at a Sky Priority lane despite platinum written all over your boarding card, or being told by a clueless person at the lounge that the lounge is only for J pax. Right: it is that order of frustration an Ultimate must be dealing with.
Aug 15, 2017, 6:38 am
#677
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
Update on the JFK-CDG trip
after the poor ground experience, the flight has been superb with plenty of nice attentions. A380 again (Y upper deck). No upgrade this time (flight was about 99 % full in Y, 100% in W, close to 100% in J based on the state of the cabin when disembarking
and 2 pax in P)
after the poor ground experience, the flight has been superb with plenty of nice attentions. A380 again (Y upper deck). No upgrade this time (flight was about 99 % full in Y, 100% in W, close to 100% in J based on the state of the cabin when disembarking
and 2 pax in P)We were greeted first by the PNC in charge of our cabin, then immediately after take off by the chief purser. Before take-off, I was bring a flute of the P Champagne (yes, served in a flute like in P) with their very good nix of nuts and cranberries. Some more was bring after take-off. We were given also the W amenity kit and the J pillow and duvet. ^ ^ ^
I had also a long discussion with the chief purser who asked my opinion about Ultimate. She was speechless hearing the total lack of consideration at JFK. And she told me also she's hearing constant complaints from every Ultimate pax she meet with. She said she would ask for an escort on arrival from the plane door. But before landing, she came back saying that she received an answer but not the one she was expecting. I was not surprised to hear that the response was "no escort at the gate for Mr Goldorak. He has to report to the Ultimate agent in the immigration hall". I have no issue with this as this agent does the job, but just to explain the difference between what has been told to the cabin crews and the reality.
So a super flight, even if it was in Y, thanks to this great crew. ^
I had also a long discussion with the chief purser who asked my opinion about Ultimate. She was speechless hearing the total lack of consideration at JFK. And she told me also she's hearing constant complaints from every Ultimate pax she meet with. She said she would ask for an escort on arrival from the plane door. But before landing, she came back saying that she received an answer but not the one she was expecting. I was not surprised to hear that the response was "no escort at the gate for Mr Goldorak. He has to report to the Ultimate agent in the immigration hall". I have no issue with this as this agent does the job, but just to explain the difference between what has been told to the cabin crews and the reality.
So a super flight, even if it was in Y, thanks to this great crew. ^
Aug 15, 2017, 9:26 am
#678
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
In my view, this apparent inconsistency on pick ups may also be related to context and resourcing.
What I mean by that is that to an extent, AF has always sent escorts to facilitate transfers to anyone when there is a significant enough group on a late flight connecting onto another. They have always sent it to anyone in P with terminal change. My guess is that Ultimate might be somewhere in between, top priority in case of late arriving flight, but maybe also in other cases where there are spare staff to do so.
However, peak summer is a very unusual season: more passengers (think peak traffic and peak summer plane configurations), more families with young kids and groups, higher proportion of connecting travel (as you do not have the business point-to-point traffic), etc. This may mean more outstretched resources despite lower P intake, and maybe come September, Ulti's will get a better experience again?
Of course, once winter is here, it will be IRROPS that increase because of weather so maybe Ulti is at its best in Autumn and Spring?!
What I mean by that is that to an extent, AF has always sent escorts to facilitate transfers to anyone when there is a significant enough group on a late flight connecting onto another. They have always sent it to anyone in P with terminal change. My guess is that Ultimate might be somewhere in between, top priority in case of late arriving flight, but maybe also in other cases where there are spare staff to do so.
However, peak summer is a very unusual season: more passengers (think peak traffic and peak summer plane configurations), more families with young kids and groups, higher proportion of connecting travel (as you do not have the business point-to-point traffic), etc. This may mean more outstretched resources despite lower P intake, and maybe come September, Ulti's will get a better experience again?
Of course, once winter is here, it will be IRROPS that increase because of weather so maybe Ulti is at its best in Autumn and Spring?!
Also, if they want to measure themselves to other similar programs, then they are a comparable failure. Whatever services GGL and HONCircle promise to offer, they also manage to deliver during summer peaks. Because (once again) these other airlines have done something that AFKL have failed to do: proper planning, communication, coaching of staff.
Aug 15, 2017, 2:32 pm
#679
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
That is all true, but it's merely a possible *explenation*, not an *excuse*. They promise these things, so they should deliver. If they can't do it (which they should know before, given that summer peaks don't come as a surprise), they shouldn't promise it.
Also, if they want to measure themselves to other similar programs, then they are a comparable failure. Whatever services GGL and HONCircle promise to offer, they also manage to deliver during summer peaks. Because (once again) these other airlines have done something that AFKL have failed to do: proper planning, communication, coaching of staff.
Also, if they want to measure themselves to other similar programs, then they are a comparable failure. Whatever services GGL and HONCircle promise to offer, they also manage to deliver during summer peaks. Because (once again) these other airlines have done something that AFKL have failed to do: proper planning, communication, coaching of staff.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280803-post439.html
Note that on the escorting grounds, by the way, Ultimate is not doing any worse than competitors: GGL and AA CK are typical for giving 'occasional' special service escort whenever they have staff available but that's only a tiny proportion of the time. And I don't know about HON but LH is quite poor at F escort compared to AF so unless they treat their HON flying Y better than *A G flying F, that's probably not where they excel either.
I think the real problem is not so much about promises that are not met but about the fact that Ultimate seems to be the only top elite status that has effectively no hard perk bar the concierge or whatever they call it (which strikes me as entirely useless). It's all about 'soft' improvements, most of which seem to be on a 'we might if we can' sort of basis. GGL, HON, CK, 2MM, etc all actually have hard perks that are precisely promised and even though soft perks might often be less than what many Ultimates are reporting here on most of those programmes (HON being the only possible exception), I think that it makes the status very fluid and unreadable for its members and does not encourage potential beneficiaries (at least, certainly not me) to tweak their travel habits to make a status which benefits are so tentative and impressionistic, not to say unclear.
Aug 15, 2017, 3:28 pm
#680
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_nF...ature=youtu.be
Don't forget we had a September already last year, where it did not work neither :-(
Aug 15, 2017, 4:01 pm
#681
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
There is a thread in the LH forum that discusses that.
The HON program has many shortcomings, one of the most significant ones being that a number of benefits have been butchered while gaining the status has become more difficult. But I hardly ever experience a consistency problem or one of not delivering. Specifically on the escorts, the inconsistency is for instance between the escort in HKG (waiting for pax at exit door, transportation by buggy, VIP passport control) and GRU (also waiting at the door, but buggies and shortcuts at immigration aren't allowed by the airport) - but in more cases that has to do with the airport than with the ground staff. Hard benefits like reservation guarantee or lounge access or limousine service are always delivered as expected.
Aug 16, 2017, 12:22 am
#682
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
But that's the thing, they don't 'promise' it, they just say that they will 'do their best' if I read this correctly
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280803-post439.html
Note that on the escorting grounds, by the way, Ultimate is not doing any worse than competitors: GGL and AA CK are typical for giving 'occasional' special service escort whenever they have staff available but that's only a tiny proportion of the time. And I don't know about HON but LH is quite poor at F escort compared to AF so unless they treat their HON flying Y better than *A G flying F, that's probably not where they excel either.
I think the real problem is not so much about promises that are not met but about the fact that Ultimate seems to be the only top elite status that has effectively no hard perk bar the concierge or whatever they call it (which strikes me as entirely useless). It's all about 'soft' improvements, most of which seem to be on a 'we might if we can' sort of basis. GGL, HON, CK, 2MM, etc all actually have hard perks that are precisely promised and even though soft perks might often be less than what many Ultimates are reporting here on most of those programmes (HON being the only possible exception), I think that it makes the status very fluid and unreadable for its members and does not encourage potential beneficiaries (at least, certainly not me) to tweak their travel habits to make a status which benefits are so tentative and impressionistic, not to say unclear.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280803-post439.html
Note that on the escorting grounds, by the way, Ultimate is not doing any worse than competitors: GGL and AA CK are typical for giving 'occasional' special service escort whenever they have staff available but that's only a tiny proportion of the time. And I don't know about HON but LH is quite poor at F escort compared to AF so unless they treat their HON flying Y better than *A G flying F, that's probably not where they excel either.
I think the real problem is not so much about promises that are not met but about the fact that Ultimate seems to be the only top elite status that has effectively no hard perk bar the concierge or whatever they call it (which strikes me as entirely useless). It's all about 'soft' improvements, most of which seem to be on a 'we might if we can' sort of basis. GGL, HON, CK, 2MM, etc all actually have hard perks that are precisely promised and even though soft perks might often be less than what many Ultimates are reporting here on most of those programmes (HON being the only possible exception), I think that it makes the status very fluid and unreadable for its members and does not encourage potential beneficiaries (at least, certainly not me) to tweak their travel habits to make a status which benefits are so tentative and impressionistic, not to say unclear.
- the TA service, but they don't do much more than the Platinum line. And the service is not 100% reliable as I am still waiting for an answer to a (simple) question I asked them by e-mail last Friday and they didn't take care of my check-in for both legs of this NY trip (no big deal for this of course, but it just shows that the reliability can be improved). I have sent them a note yesterday about my JFK trip (both the plus and the minus).
- the escort service at CDG immigration. I believe we (the small group of Ulti FTers here) obtained this undelivered promised perk thanks to our actions toward AF/KL/FB (+ very likely the comments sent by other non-FT Ulti customers). But this is still a partial perk as it's only in the morning and it is supposed to last until October when new PARAFES gates with facial recognition are supposed to be installed.
The rest is is just random, sometimes very nice (e.g. experience on-board) but unpredictable so unreliable. Too much dependance on the mood of the day, the weather and I don't know what else. Very frequent travelers need real perks for such a program and reliability/homogeneity
Aug 16, 2017, 12:28 am
#683
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
In the air, one can hardly use human resource as an excuse. In principle the number of flight attendants is the same for a given aircraft and a given route. As I have emphasized it multiple times, the chief purser sets the tone. If he or she is a proponent of the program, the crew will go the extra mile. If not, tough luck. Moreover, if human resource were the sole issue, why would DL, known for being notoriously understaffed, have a successful top-tier hyper-frequent-flyer program? All my colleagues enrolled in the Diamond or 360 program have but good things to say about it.
Also, if they want to measure themselves to other similar programs, then they are a comparable failure. Whatever services GGL and HONCircle promise to offer, they also manage to deliver during summer peaks. Because (once again) these other airlines have done something that AFKL have failed to do: proper planning, communication, coaching of staff.
Having analyzed carefully the few pros and the many cons of the program over the past months (praising its positive aspects and complaining about its many failures), where do we go from here?
Macaron54
Aug 16, 2017, 2:13 am
#684
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
And this is not even consistent. A couple of weeks ago, when I arrived at HKG, there was no one at the door of the aircraft. However, when I flew back, after asking proactively for it, I was escorted to the Skyteam lounge by a person from the third-party service handling AFKL PAX's (alongside those of many other carriers), going smoothly through the security VIP line, but waiting like everyone else in the (fortunately short) immigration line.
In the air, one can hardly use human resource as an excuse.
Aug 16, 2017, 5:45 am
#685
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Post scriptum
Aug 16, 2017, 6:39 am
#686
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
AF: shorthaul: never; longhaul 80%
HOP: never
and what it makes it even worse in my case is that even all my fights are in C or F, where there is plenty of time for a warm welcoming/extra attention, etc...
plus, (I said this before): AF does not know the KL collected/stored preferences, so 0% of AF flights they were able to 'offer' them.
Aug 19, 2017, 9:00 am
#687
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Paris,FR
Programs: AF/KL FBPFL Ultimate, IHG Spire, HERTZ 5 stars
Posts: 82
Personal greeting on longhaul flights = 100% I think
Presonal greeting on shorthaul flights = exception for me less than 10%
No onboard comments on my preferences ....
Improvement to come ?
Presonal greeting on shorthaul flights = exception for me less than 10%
No onboard comments on my preferences ....
Improvement to come ?
PS/ This video offers a tangible basis to express our dissatisfaction. Out of x flights, how many times have we been greeted personally by the (chief) purser? How many times have we been indulged on board our food, drink and newspaper preferences? And how many times have we been welcomed at the airport and offered the services alluded to in the promotional video?
Aug 19, 2017, 11:31 am
#688
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Paris,FR
Programs: AF/KL FBPFL Ultimate, IHG Spire, HERTZ 5 stars
Posts: 82
In order to continue on the consistency or inconsistency of the program benefits, here follow my Ultimate experience of the week :
- GRU assistance : outstanding with reception at my inbound domestic flight from other company & esccort to lounge, small miss for pre-boarding corrected by contractor lounge attendant than escorted me for pos-boarding ... ^
- GRU-CDG : Upgrade from Economy with miles to J & in flight recognition ^
- CDG assistance : nobody at immigration : "Goldorak's partial perk" (recent post) left/disappeared suddenly before my arrival at the beginning of the queue per ADP assistant (still chasing my TA for this miss) & bad support at arrival 2C lounge but very good recognition at 2G, but globally
- CDG-STR : no recognition
- STR-CDG : lounge team lost when I asked pre-boarding, they told me only for Ultimate and nothing when I shown my card (no label for me on their system, only "blue diamond"). Flight canceled at the end but TA quickly rerouted me to arrive in CDG before the next direct flight; very good service ^
In conclusion good points, but miserable miss at CDG immigration = so still inconsistent but with good efforts from TAs with upgrade/rerouting, they will perhaps save the sinking ship or medusa raft... let's see
- GRU assistance : outstanding with reception at my inbound domestic flight from other company & esccort to lounge, small miss for pre-boarding corrected by contractor lounge attendant than escorted me for pos-boarding ... ^
- GRU-CDG : Upgrade from Economy with miles to J & in flight recognition ^
- CDG assistance : nobody at immigration : "Goldorak's partial perk" (recent post) left/disappeared suddenly before my arrival at the beginning of the queue per ADP assistant (still chasing my TA for this miss) & bad support at arrival 2C lounge but very good recognition at 2G, but globally
- CDG-STR : no recognition
- STR-CDG : lounge team lost when I asked pre-boarding, they told me only for Ultimate and nothing when I shown my card (no label for me on their system, only "blue diamond"). Flight canceled at the end but TA quickly rerouted me to arrive in CDG before the next direct flight; very good service ^
In conclusion good points, but miserable miss at CDG immigration = so still inconsistent but with good efforts from TAs with upgrade/rerouting, they will perhaps save the sinking ship or medusa raft... let's see
Aug 19, 2017, 2:11 pm
#689
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
Flew today domestic from CDG.
- good handling by the TA of checking-in at row 1 a non-status pax traveling with me (on a different PNR)
- nothing special at check-in at 2F, but a very courteous and professional agent who asked us if we needed anything special
- very good welcome at the lounge, accompanied to a reserved area
- very good service on-board. A cushion was placed only one one seat in the cabin : mine. On domestic flights, there is not a lot they can do to differentiate the service, as there a only one class.
- good handling by the TA of checking-in at row 1 a non-status pax traveling with me (on a different PNR)
- nothing special at check-in at 2F, but a very courteous and professional agent who asked us if we needed anything special
- very good welcome at the lounge, accompanied to a reserved area
- very good service on-board. A cushion was placed only one one seat in the cabin : mine
. On domestic flights, there is not a lot they can do to differentiate the service, as there a only one class.
Aug 20, 2017, 3:14 am
#690
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
... that's what they do. HONs get the full treatment of escort in longhaul outstations (granted, some of them are less useful than others), irrespective of class of service, something passengers in First Class do not always get unless they're HON.
[...] Hard benefits like reservation guarantee or lounge access or limousine service are always delivered as expected.
[...] Hard benefits like reservation guarantee or lounge access or limousine service are always delivered as expected.
I would even dispute that the arrangement that Goldorak rightly mentions about CDG immigration is a 'hard perk' per se. For me it is still a soft perk, but where the airline confirmed a transitory and case specific systematic implementation. There is a big nuance here. It's the same as, say, and airline which might say 'we might occasionally suspend the rules for our top tier customers but there is no guarantee' but in the context of a major disruption (strike, weather disruption, etc) would tell those top tier members "Please, don't worry, during the strike we'll definitely suspend the rules for all of your planned travel even if it is not covered by our regular IRROP policy."
I take your point about your finding the travel concierge useful. I can only say that my Ulti friends do not and do not see it as any better than, say, the GGL line.